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General discussion Author: Ahktenar Date: 04-05-01 11:01 This is a topic to discuss any matter not covered by the role-play (RP) topics. The RP topic has it's own discussion topic, as will each sub-topic. These are for discussions of the RP aspects of our novel. This topic is for the out of character (OOC) concerns of our members. This is the place for discussions on novel organization, problems and suggestions for the group, et.c. In London, there is a street corner where, by law, anyone can publicly voice their opinion without fear. This is to be our street corner. The discussion should be frank, but polite, without fear of any sort of censure. Flaming and generally rude comments will not be tolerated. The Royal Family and their advisors, will check this topic frequently. We want to hear what you have to say, and this is the place to say it. *Moving a giant soap box into place* "Ok, who wants to start?"
City List of Residents Author: Rosenetka Amonet Date: 04-05-01 13:02 *Steps up on soap box.* Where can Nomarchs/Mayors post their list of residents and occupations, similar to what you have in "The Office of the Grand Vizier"? We will need to keep in mind to make it easy to find for new members of this novel, as well as those who are not so new.
RE: City List of Residents Author: Ahktenar Date: 04-05-01 13:42 The list of residents is kept by the Overseer of Recruits. You should post this information in the Office of the Overseer of Recruits. This topic was established in the story board.
RE: City List of Residents Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 04-05-01 13:45 You can post them in my Offices of the Overseer of Recruits
RE: City List of Residents Author: Mirjam Date: 04-06-01 03:17 Suggestion: For those who want to keep their own City Lists of Residents as well as Temple Lists of Priesthood, it can be kept at an offsite server and be linked to your homes here. This is already being done with the list of Active Priesthood. Take a look.
RE: City List of Residents Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 04-06-01 04:42 Thank you Mirjam for your suggestion :-) However, the government's List of Residents will be included in the Virtual Kemet web pages which will be kept on an offsite server. I will continue to link to not only to individual residents homes but to any city whose mayor gives me the url. That way the whole of Qenbet will eventually be able to visit the homes of other residents whether they are at Pan or off-site. Virtual Kemet is in the process of being redesigned and updated to meet the needs of our new home. This will take some time so please be patient. Thais Overseer of Recuits Overseer of All Works
Thread Loading times... Author: Henuttiwy Corinth Date: 04-08-01 08:35 I hate to bring up this topic, but if anyone ventures over to PH Junction to read the 139 messages in the possible novel topic thread, one will notice it takes forever to load. Not just once, but each time one goes to read a new message. So I hardly read that thread, now... Now, it is probable that when the new server is in place this won't be an issue, and it is probable that my modem running at rates of 33.6ish may be also playing a role. (But this is a role it will continue to play for quite some time...) The main Qenbet novel thread is at 90 messages -- it doesn't take all that long to load, but 50 more messages isn't all that far away... and I can see people going back to reading just what immediately concerns them for time reasons, defeating the point behind the one big happy thread idea...
RE: Thread Loading times... Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 04-08-01 09:33 Excuse me for jumping in here - but you might be quite right Henuttiwy - this is the problem with the threaded views, they're not rolling over after 30 posts. When you have one single thread the posts automatically roll and you never more than 30 posts per page, with a button to view older posts. I don't know if we can fix the threaded topics to do that.
RE: Thread Loading times... Author: Desert Dweller Date: 04-24-01 04:46 I have to agree big tim e I know of two people who get timed out every time the come to read.Maby the prob is both modum and thread.but we I hope can do something about the thread.Cause we can't help those with slower modums.*S* Dez
RE: Thread Loading times... Author: Ahktenar Date: 04-24-01 12:57 We tried the hierarchical format. It didn't work as well as we had hoped. The format has been changed back to the original one. The load times are MUCH better now.
Missing City Names in Posts Author: Juliet Pinguinus Date: 05-07-01 19:33 I've noticed that alot of posts don't have in their posts which city they are in.
RE: Missing City Names in Posts Author: Henuttiwy Corinth Date: 05-07-01 19:42 I notice this as well. It does make navigating on a limited time frame confusing. I do hope future posts do give some indication of city / locale when being made.
RE: City List of Residents Author: Basteta-Tiye Date: 05-08-01 05:58 The Great Royal Wife's personal household consists of: The Royal Miews Nefertiti -- Current handmiew of Bast and First Cat of Kemet Chakotay -- Roman tom cat brought to Kemet by Basteta-Tiye Sa -- Snow Leopard and bodyguard (not yet appearing in role play) Miews are happily accepted as gifts *smile* Staff Tefnut Senwosret -- Queen's Gardener, Chief Gardener of Bast Unknown servants, medjay, etc (any takers?) Relatives General Gaius Marius Maximus -- retired Roman General, Chief of Police in Per-Bast, father of dead first husband, Maximus Senator Gaius Marius Maximus -- older brother of dead first husband, Maximus Dalmatica -- the Senator's wife and confident of Livia, spy for Basteta
Need some basic help Author: Siunetherit Date: 05-08-01 11:00 Em hotep! I've been lurking and catching up on posts for several weeks now, and I'm ready to toss in a post of my own. I can see that there are plots in the works already. What I can't see is where these plots are being hatched or if there is any OOC discussion of them. The only info I can find is on Coronation and the Funeral. I see that there are Novel Boards, Story Boards, and Planning Boards. Can someone tell me which boards are to be used for what here in Qenbet? senebty and thanks! Siunetherit
RE: Need some basic help Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 05-09-01 09:11 Em hotep Siunetherit, The OCC thread for discussing role-play is the Life In Qenbet VI, which is here in the Planning Board. As you have noted both the Funeral and Coronation have been discussed there. I can only speak for myself about the minor plotlines but a lot of discussion is done by IM's and per messages. It can be difficult to find your way into a plotline but you've done the right thing by asking for help. Perhaps you should approach the people involved in the storyline you would like to join and ask them if you could contribute? *smiles* As for the roles of the different boards at Qenbet, I'll try to explain them. The Planning Board contains most of the OCC stuff. Here you will find, as previously mentioned, the LIQ topic for OCC discussion, the 'Announcements' topic; a topic called 'Employment Opportunities', which is where people can ask for jobs or advertise them and of course this 'General Discussion' topic. The Story Boards contain the various Government offices, here OCC questions relating to each office can be asked. There is also a topic about court customs and a character history topic. These are there to complement the roleplay in the Novel Board. 'Life in Qenbet (Story)' is a place to post to post historical information, links, graphics, anything you can think of that will supplement your posts in the Novel Board. The Novel Board is for role-play only and contains two topics: the main Novel, 'Life in Qenbet VI' and a minor Novel topic set in1921, called 'Into the Tomb'. This is the Pharaoh's baby and hasn't yet got off the ground. I hope this helps :-)
RE: Missing City Names in Posts Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 05-09-01 09:21 Juliet and Henuttiwy, That's a very good point. I'm afraid I'm one of those people who have been forgetting to indicate the city they are posting in. Sorry :-) I'll make sure I include it the next time I post.
We Need a New Direction Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-25-01 11:40 I've noticed, as the months have gone by, less and less posting on Qenbet - until finally it appears that most of the cities have actually left our little family. We're left with what? Perhaps it's time to rediscuss an idea that, I believe, Osiris Ma'at-ib-Re brought before the death of AS. What do we want this novel to look like? The one thing that has always kept me here - even though there has been a lot of nonsense over the years - is the quality of our characters and our storytelling. Perhaps it's time to shed the bureaucracy, which is fleeing in droves anyway, and just concentrate on what we do well: tell great stories about Greco Roman Egypt. We've a wonderful time and place, a wonderful premise, and a wonderful group of core writers. If I might say - some of the best in all Pan. Let's stop trying to be what we are not, and be what we are. A stirring novel of romance, action, intrigue, and beautifully crafted history within a jeweled lotus setting.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Jeanne Montgomery Date: 05-25-01 17:25 Em hotep! I would whole heartedly agree with you Tjeti. I think we have some excellent writers, and to be honest, all the hierarchical structure, which really became a bit of stumbling block in the end, has impaired us from doing what we are really here to do - and that is to write a stories that are dramatic and full of intrigue, deception, passion - and above all the quality, well considered writing that kept us all coming back to Qenbet all those years since its creation. Come on, lets sit down, put our collective heads together and breathe some LIFE into this novel!
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Rosenetka Amonet Date: 05-25-01 17:28 I have noticed an exidus of writers from this novel also. It could be we lost them with the move to here and/or with our new thread structure.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: KaRa Date: 05-25-01 19:40 This is a most necessary topic for discussion. It is high time that we had a real rock'em sock'em discussion around here. Of course, I'll put in my two qitesworth. People will only read the Qenbet novel if there is entertainment in it. Should this occur, people will devour our stories and be inspired to make stories of their own. I certainly have my favorite writers here. I notice that I enjoy unexpected turns of events like when SiamunRe wrote about Thais' mother, Hetepheres, waking up the next morning and finding out she slept with the wrong guy. I never expected that ending and I laughed like a loon over it. There are some here who are great at turning a lovely phrase like Jonamun, and Nebmaatre and Anpua. Itet and Ashere hold my awe for passion. I'm waiting for Basteta and Amaunet to get going in this department and wonder what Thais will do with Ptolemy in the future. HA HA. Did you ever notice that here we have fallen into a rut with the use of certain conventions which through overuse we have made trite. I call this the Qenbet Cannon. See what you would like to add. 1. Are we vampires that we never mention the sunlight? So many stories begin by mentioning the position of the sun and It always has to be Ra beams or something about the solar barque. 2. Then there are the boring titles. "Going To The Funeral," "Going To The Funeral Part II," "Returning From The Funeral," How can such prosaic titles compete with "The Ghost of the Ibis"? 3. Every woman has beaded braids that clank against each other. 4. We all have to show off our knowledge of AE by mentioning that a character has put on his eyeliner and perfumed himself. 5. No one in Qenbet, city or court, dirties his hands. Everyone is financially secure and tended by servants. All the girls are slender, in their twenties, and have titles. No one is physically imperfect except for Userirytenre SiAmunRe. Everyone reads. 6. Another way that originated with the intention of bringing Egyptian color into the stories is the food. Over time, however, the business of figs has become trite. 7. Everyone here has his own chariot drawn by a pair of champion steeds and has a boat of his own with some pompous name like "The Balls of Bes" to travel on the hap. Far be it from any of us to hop on an ass and caravan to the next town. Yes, I think it is time that we delve beneath the wigs, collars, and titles of our characters and get down into the ib of the character to learn and share in his loves, joys, fears, financial troubles, and insufficiencies. When we can recognize the timeless humanity in our characters and put that on screen we'll see people coming back. Well, I guess that I'd better get to work then because I just wrote a meritless piece of fluff to introduce some new artwork to the people of Qenbet.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-25-01 21:38 *laughing* Oh boy, now this feels like Qenbet. Since I have only recently rejoined Qenbet to roleplay with a few old friends, I'll keep it brief. I have to admit I haven't been reading all the posts, but I have read some here and there. PH was to be a new start for Qenbet, if I remember correctly so why not change the structure a bit? Maybe it's time the group got more of an overhaul then just the reigning Pharaoh. (no disrespect meant to the Per'aa of course *grin*) I was only with Qenbet over at AS for a short time, but I have heard wonderous stories of the beginning of the group. For those of you that are here from those times, would trying to recapture that spirit be a good idea? And what would we do to regain it?
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Mirjam Date: 05-26-01 11:07 I´m all for getting on with writing as I do think that is the life and blood of Qenbet here at Pan. But don´t forget that people like to make webpages to back up the story (look at what KaRa just did and look at her royal palace web page!) Also, we should stick to the time period and not introduce things which were not invented yet. (Yes, i know, we´ve been through this before *g*) KaRa, the caravans were much later I believe. We need a devilish plot! We need a storyline which will make a difference, which will bring the attention of the reader and make him wonder what´s gonna come next. I´m not that good a writer or plotter but I do enjoy keeping with the story and I imagine I´m learning to develop my character a little bit. We don´t need an appointment to each and every little position to be able to write, we don´t need a special 'office' thread for each and every type of position. While sometimes a good tool for having some sense of order and for telling who´s doing what, it can easily be overdone, and that´s where we happen into overadministration. And I think we lost people partly because the story´s been uninteresting sofar, partly when it became official that AS was closing down, and partly because we don´t have any city threads right now. That is not where the emphasis has been. I also agree with KaRa; where are the poor and dirty ones? Where can we read about the life of the stone mason in Deir el Medina or the farmer tilling his felds outside of Waset? Allright so to write about that requires a little bit of research, well then, we are, after all, in ancient Egypt and things were different then. Still there are good possibilities to find out about it.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Sekhmet Meritamen Date: 05-26-01 13:37 Mirjam, I promise you and the rest of the members of Qenbet, there is going to be a devlish plot coming up, with plenty of twists and turns - just the kind our good Pharaoh is famous for in days past - with more players both good and bad, rich and poor, noble and the less than noble and honrable ones being introduced. It will NOT be boring. No....I won't give away what I have in mind, so don't even bother to ask me about what is coming. You're going to have to wait and see. *wicked grin* Suffice it to say that my goal is to have people sign in to Qenbet, read the latest and very many times feel like screaming at their computer screens because they have to THINK their way through these plots. It is this unexpected elements that we give each other (all within the guidelines of the group) that will in the end make better writers of all of us,. And besides that, its alot more fun. Personally I would like to see the days of quiet complacency come to a tumultuous and dramatic end. Qenbet at its best was never a calm place. It was filled with the plots and intrigues of the truly ambitious who had motives that may not have been so easily discerned by just observing them from the outside. Underneath the surface of each of our characters lies both good and dark qualities. These qualities, and how they interact with each other, various situations and the world in which they live. It is, I beleive, makes Qenbet a fantastic writing group with a huge bit of potential that we can utilize. One thing I would like to remind people, that plots in a novel are not real life. It is all too easy to take things written as being done on a personal level. That concerns me. I've seen it happen in Qenbet and would like to avoid it if at all possible. I really want to hear feedback, concerns, etc. And YES, I will stow a plot if it causes too much of a problem. We need to work together, so lets do.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-26-01 14:00 Out of sheer curiosity, what would some of the members think about getting a storyline chat together? Since Qenbet is comprised of more than just a few core members, a broader storyline, something that can affect everyone may be a good idea. Just a thought. *smile*
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Akhenheru Hatshepsut Date: 05-26-01 15:27 A chat? I'd certainly be there!! :-) I for one would also definitely enjoy other people's feedback & commentary on my writing, and I'd sure love to be in on any big new plans in store for Qenbet. I kind of ignored the main RP thread at AS because of the separate Iunu thread, and I'm glad that here at Pan, I'm obligated to post in it! *lol* That eliminates that problem. But yes, I agree that a few of us don't really delve too deeply into our characters. I for one will be trying to restart a plot I began at AS, concerning Akhen being a descendant of royal blood. I'd appreciate any advice or collaboration if y'all are interested. ;-)
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Anpua Thutmose Date: 05-27-01 07:02 Nebet KaRa is too kind. *chuckle* Nebet KaRa also has some valid points. Yes, we do seem to be a collection of Kemet's elite, literate and lofty, and this may be part due to the fun factor -- come on, we're also here to "live" a fantasy of ancient Kemet, yes? -- part due to the group's past. We originated as the Qenbet, the court of Osiris Cleopatra. Storyline centered around the PerAa. As we grew and evolved, the nomes, government & priesthood systems came into being, so many people took on civil & holy titles -- and detailed their characters to suit. And people are naturally going to gravitate to where the action is. That so many of our characters are rich/literate/etc is not puerile weakness but a natural result of how we evolved as a group. Who says the lives of the rich have to be easy? They suffer death, estrangement, sorrow, etc just like the rest of us. Our characters are pampered, but if one takes a moment to consider their pasts and present, there is tension, danger and heartache going on -- on a grander scale than those of the farmer, yes, but deep at core, human emotions and frailties are exactly the same. In the best of fiction, what matters is not outward setting, but inner landscape. There is no reason we cannot have excellence using the tools we already own. But I do agree: Pan is not AS. The group is smaller -- yes it is, folks -- and perhaps we need to trim down, and focus in on the writing? For me, the greatest draw of Qenbet has been the fiction. Virtual Kemet was wonderful, Mirjam's Per Ankh pages astonishing in their depth. (Three cheers for our KLP!) But what kept me coming back, through the silliness, through a morass of beaucracy and bickering and power plays "backstage", was... the writing. Kaptah's nefarious villians and wicked plot twists. Jonamun's lyricism. KaRa's charm and excellent graphics. The historical details. Drama, intrigue... and on and on. So many wonderful writers delving into their characters' souls: Sekhmet and Mekareh are two that spring easily to mind. Pan is a writers' community. I say we light the literary fires within ourselves and remind everyone that we're damn good! *grin* Get those quills going, folks!
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Mirjam Date: 05-27-01 07:30 Hear, hear... ;) I have a few thoughts though. In effect it does not really matter if we´re rich or poor, that is true. But to have a wide and colorful scope, there should be characters from all walks of life. It broadens the panorama. Qenbet originated as a group about the HISTORY of ancient Kemet. We were there because we wanted to talk about and learn more about something which was very interesting, for not to say fascinating for us. It began, as Anpua says, as the court of Cleopatra. Which lead later to the Virtual Kemet project, which purpose was from the beginning to reflect the historical wonders of ancient Egypt and the land itself. The storywriting came in later, and about that time, also the hierarchy and all the different positions etc - which in their turn, was an effort to reflect the social structure of ancient Egypt. So now, with the move to pan, the emphasis has shifted towards writing. That´s quite ok. I have no problem with that. But I am still as passionately interested in the history. Regarding writing, what I whish for, is to have some sort of discussion about writing, what it entails, what can be done to improve my writing skill, what tools are there, etc. I am not a writer, I do my best but feel very inadequate. And yet I sense that there is more to be had, to be done, than just spellchecking my posts. How do I go about develop my character(s)? What is good, what is a well-written post and what is a less well-written post? Though all of it may fall under the heading of subjective interpretation, still there must be some common, general ground, mustn´t there? Allright, we all have lives, we all have feelings and emotions. We all go through difficulties and hard times, we all experience losses or wins. We all have fears and longings. People in ancient days were no different. Here the challenge is to formulate that into real, vibrant lives which can be felt as we read the postings. I also do believe that within each and everyone of us lies the possibility to get better at what we´re doing. I for one, refuse to give up .
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-27-01 10:21 Em hotep Being a writing group does not negate learning about history. As a writer here, I pour over books on AE in order to add depth to my character and power to his thinking. I am not a high priest of Amun in real life and I don't have the same concerns as my Tjeti character. I would venture to say that though there are many similiarities between people of all places and all times, there are also incredible differences in thinking due to culture. Just consider the ancients conception of time and our conception. We moan if it takes a few hours to cover distances that Tjeti would be happy to cover in days or even weeks. If I'm hungry I can pop a burrito in the microwave. A man of Tjeti's standing would have to request his servants bring him food - food that they may have prepared for days. He wouldn't be wearing Nikes. Men and women had different roles in society. Are you Roman, Greek, or Egyptian? There are so many things that can be learned that enhance our appreciation of history and our ability to create fulfilling stories. I don't believe my initial suggestion was to stop learning and sharing the history of the period. I am talking about the lumbering (and now largely decamped) engine of the old Qenbet with the bureaucracy. The original intent of the organization, I believe, was to simulate the social structure of AE and to foster web pages and such. Well it never really worked. I think story story story with good substantial story boards detailing the history of our period. If anyone cares to take a look at my Tombstone novel and storyboards you will see what I mean.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-27-01 11:52 I'm sure I will be stoned to death for making this post, but I feel the need to represent those newer members of Qenbet that did not start off with the group. *smile* I have carefully read the posts that have been made and notice whenever writers are referenced, it is usually the older members of Qenbet. As being one of the "newer" members, I have lost count of how many posts I have read telling tales of how great the old Qenbet was and the rave reviews of the older member's writing ability. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying they don't deserve it. I have read the posts and would agree with the reviews and compliments, however, in this discussion alone newer members could feel alienated. There are several good writers in the newer batch of members, but I failed to see them recognized. I'm sure this wasn't intentional, but I did feel the need to point this out. Plotlines and storytelling are very important to roleplay, whether you have webpages attached to the group or not. I, personally, enjoy the Virtual Kemet pages and it can be used as a quick reference tool for roleplay research. I know that myself and several others put many hours of hard work into our pages for Virtual Kemet, researching the areas of our cities/nomes, etc. If you are traveling from one place to another, what better place to check out information on the city you are going to be arriving at? But in saying that I enjoy the pages of Virtual Kemet it doesn't mean I can't find fault with them either. I would agree that perhaps Virtual Kemet should be streamlined a bit more, perhaps with more general information pages that can be a useful research tool for everyone on subjects such as dress, transportation, etc. Information that people currently do use in their posts and will continue to use. With a quick and easy reference, more posts may be found with accurate historical information, beyond applying eyeliner. *smile* What I really think this group needs is more collaboration between the older members and the newer ones. As Mirjam mentioned, she isn't a full blown writer, neither am I and I would wager there are more like us. Beginning collaboration between the older members and newer members could assist those that are flexing their newly found writing skills and would like to learn more in addition to creating storylines in which everyone can get involved in. Well, that is my two cents worth. *smile*
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-27-01 12:37 No, Persenti, not stoned to death. But this is an old chestnut that just sidesteps the ACTUAL issue we are supposed to be discussing. We are not attracting new writers right now, and we're not encouraging them because the novel lacks direction. Time to discuss how to nurture new writers when we have a workable novel with a strong structure. In my original post I didn't mention the names of the good writers in Qenbet. If I were it would be a mix of old and new. Some of us - that are considered old guard - haven't been around since the beginning. I was not around for the first year of Qenbet for instance. Mirjam nearly has - and regardless of her protestations otherwise - I consider her a strong writer of this group. I've seen examples of your work, Persenti, and you are also strong. I also consider newer writers as part of the equation. Our King has been around for a shorter time than some of the others here. My point is not that ONLY the old time members are good writers but that the people who are attracted and STAY are good writers. That includes people who may not have been named specifically in the posts on this topic. So let's return to the issue at hand. Do we want a strong and attractive novel or do we want to continue to waffle along with a sort of formless and now largely empty lumbering giant? I'm sure I'm pissing people off by pressing this issue, but I think we're looking at an OPPORTUNITY here. Let's be creative and look at this positively. And I'm not talking about throwing away projects like VK, which I worked on, BTW. But I'm talking about discarding the cumbersome bureaucracy - appointments and city topics. That's not to say that I am saying that people can't write smaller stories centered around family and friends or non-court orientated plots but that we discard the ADMINSTRATION aspect. In other words the cooperation comes between people creating fiction based on history and the Nile Valley - not on worrying about rising in the ranks of hierarchy. We would still have to look to the board members to approve roles that new people take on - but it could be far more informal. Titles would be largely reflect your role in the story, not some adminstrative function. That doesn't mean someone couldn't create web pages that reflects the role that their character might have had in history - or any of the other activities that have enriched this group over time, but that it's no longer an OBLIGATION that causes dissension and too many responsibilities in what should be fun and creative.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Rosenetka Amonet Date: 05-27-01 12:50 Tjeti you may not have mentioned newbies or oldies etc in your post, but others who followed suit have. When it's mentioned that Qenbet was so much better in the old days, it makes me feel, as a newbie, that I have some how tainted your wonderful world here. Maybe I should pack up all my characters here and leave you people who just can't seem to let go of the old ways to do as you please.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-27-01 12:54 I apologize if you thought any of my post was directed specifically at you Tjeti, that was not the case, I was using general references. *smile* But putting that aside and continuing on with the matter at hand, I believe a strong underlying plotline from which smaller subplots can immerge would be a great idea. Myself and a few others have been discussing something of that sort these past couple of days. Dawn of the Two Lands has a structure similar to what you are discussing, Tjeti, and as Nithotep of said novel *grin* I would definitely agree with that suggestion. Webpages could still be used, but perhaps more focused on the actual historical information pertaining to such "positions" as versus long lists of city occupations, etc. One of the main reasons I did not rejoin Qenbet directly upon its arrival at PH was because of the problems caused by the bureaucracy over at AS. It has a tendency to suck the life out of the storyline and the fun that can be had in roleplaying ancient Egypt. My only concern from reading some of the previous posts was that the newer members were being overlooked when they are as much of an essential part of this group as the older members. You have addressed that concern and stated quite clearly that isn't the case so my next question is....what are some proposed plotlines we can all sink our teeth into? *grin*
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-27-01 13:12 Rosenetka Amonet wrote: > > Tjeti you may not have mentioned newbies or oldies etc > in your post, but others who followed suit have. When it's > mentioned that Qenbet was so much better in the old days, it > makes me feel, as a newbie, that I have some how tainted your > wonderful world here. Maybe I should pack up all my > characters here and leave you people who just can't seem to > let go of the old ways to do as you please. I sure hope you don't do that, Rosenetka! I have a great fidelity to Qenbet over the years because of a thread of good storytelling in it, but I don't remember a time when I would call it a perfect group. I don't know what the golden days of Cleopatra. I'm not trying to return Qenbet to the 'old days'. I'm trying to bring Qenbet into the future. If a few people remember the old days with pleasure, don't let that put you off. This is your novel too.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-27-01 13:22 Persenti, I am indeed working on a major plotline, with the agreement of SiamunRe, which should send shockwaves throughout Kemet, from north to south. The nature of the story is such that even if your character is not in direction contact with either the HP of Amun or the Pharaoh YOU will be affected. For the purposes of readers suspense I don't want to divulge my exact plans - but sufficient information will come out in the various posts that people will be able to have their characters react to the events in some form. I will post more on the actual RP discussion thread as the time comes to alert writers to possibilities. Once Qenbet comes to some sort of agreement about the nature of the novel's future then we might want to consider how we all can cooperate more fully on how stories go. We are dealing with an entire country here - so plots range from location to location, from the Court to Mennefer to Waset to Alexandria. We have politics and intrigue. We have Rome and we have Nubia to the south. Endless possiblities.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-27-01 13:34 Tjeti, This recent post of yours is what I am talking about in regards to people feeling left out. It almost sounds like you will be creating the storyline and the rest of us should just sit back and watch. If I have misread, please let me know, but I know that I, for one, automatically feel left out. Others, most especially if it were to directly impact them, may want to provide feedback and become involved. Myself and others are working on a storyline as well that has far reaches, how do we know our storylines won't conflict and send one or the other spiraling out of control? This is a group and I would feel that large storyline decisions on events that would affect everyone should be openly discussed. Smaller subplots could contain the roleplay discussion secrecy. I have also just found out that there are already plans in the work to slimline Qenbet, including Virtual Kemet, so perhaps we should all just wait until after the coronation to come to a final decision.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Sekhmet Meritamen Date: 05-27-01 13:54 Em hotep: With major characters at court, be they Pharaoh, or a High Priest or the heir, events in their lives had far reaching reprocussions of course. Does that mean that it will effect your own storylines and the lives of your character detrimentally? No, I don't believe that it does necessarily. It may provide your character with a challenge or an opportunity with which they have to deal, but really how is that different from our day to day lives? Fiction is a bit like life, you can never see what comes down the road too far ahead, and like life they tend to be fluid. Every single person here is striving to work together. Each person sees their character going through their day to day lives - and the real writing comes in how your character reacts to events that come up. A great example of this is when someone would post something, such as the kidnapping of a royal person - or the battle with Nabataea, or the arrival of the Romans on the docks at Alexandria that someone would creatively place in their fiction. We all had the opportunity to react to it - or be oblivious to those events. And it really is no different now.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-27-01 14:05 Persenti, You did misread me. Furthermore you've just made claims to information I'm not privy to so am I supposed to feel left out? No, I don't. Because I don't expect to know every thing that anyone is thinking about in Qenbet. It's a large group of writers here. My storyline, which I've been working on for months, is meant to entertain. To fully let everyone in on it would mean that there is no suspense. Qenbet has never worked like that. How else do people hold on to the edge of their seats? In the Usurper plot we all chewed our nails wondering how it would turn out. I refuse to minimize that kind of enjoyment for people. However - I don't plan to leave people out. I stated, quite clearly, that when we move past this issue, I would post more on the discussion thread. What I was trying to do was to keep this discussion on track rather than become distracted with plot discussions. If I get the general impression from the responses on this topic that I'm way offbase in my feelings about structure for this novel, I will adapt to the concensus. And what I will once again restate is: WHAT KIND OF NOVEL DO WE WANT? This is what we should be discussing. Tell us the positive. Tell us what you want, what would excite you?
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-27-01 14:27 Tjeti, What do I want? Are you sure you really want to know? This entire discussion has smacked of eliticism and that is something that existed over at AS as well. I would like to see that disappear, for good. Furthermore you distinctly stated: "I am indeed working on a major plotline, with the agreement of SiamunRe, which should send shockwaves throughout Kemet, from north to south. The nature of the story is such that even if your character is not in direction contact with either the HP of Amun or the Pharaoh YOU will be affected." If I am going to be affected, I would like to know how and if your storyline is going to basically screw up mine. You can't just create a storyline that is going to impact everyone and their own separate storylines and expect them to just say okay, I'll change mine. That is not fair to the other members in this group. In addition to that, what about asking newer members if they would like to take part in these major, Qenbet-shaking storylines? The ones I noticed over at AS always had the same core members attached to them. This is supposed to be a group effort and from your description of what you would like to do to entertain other members of this group, perhaps your story should be more of a subplot. That way you would have your suspense. This is not anyone's personal playground and it takes a GROUP effort to make a group work. Thais and I are also working on a plotline which dates back to AS days, which also has SiamunRe's approval. If ours proves to be as far-reaching as we would like it to be, the group gets involved. Some specifics such as identities and certain plot twists can remain in secrecy, however, we have no plans of just creating a major story that could affect many without letting them know the basics. As for my knowledge of information you don't know, simply ask one of the four Board Members. As they are all in charge of this group, they are the best ones to ask. Now, returning to your last question. I would like to see a novel that roleplays the glory of ancient Egypt, as a group, with everyone becoming involved in major plotlines, with subplots branching off. The hierarchy also exists in that aspect as well and if we are going to do away with it in one regard, I believe we should do away with it all together.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Rosenetka Amonet Date: 05-27-01 14:40 I would like to see what you have in mind Tjeti and then go from there.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-27-01 14:51 Persenti, Perhaps you perceive elitism where there is none? If I wanted to remain elite than why bring this up on a public discussion topic for all members to read? I fail to see the difference between me planning a storyline with the King's approval and you doing so. When I said "YOU would be affected" the idea was that you would NOT feel excluded. The point I was making was that I was not planning a story that was elitist and limited to a couple of individuals but one that has far reaching implications for all of Qenbet. I also stated that it would be clear from the posts made and that I would discuss it further on the story discussion thread. I did not mean to imply that your character would have something happen to them without their permission. I'm sorry if you thought that's what I meant. I was actually trying to get people excited. I find accusations of elitism everytime there is a discussion of Qenbet's structure to be stiffling, frankly. I also am missing why free speech about how we want the novel to go is elitist? Surely it would be more elitist if free speech was not allowed? Am I being really being dense here and missing the connection? And again in my last post I said that if I was way off track with what others wanted then I would be quiet. I really want to hear from a broad group of people - including Qenbet's board members. Qenbet has always allowed for free discussion. I sincerely hope that the board members still maintain this liberty for the novel here at Pan Historia.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-27-01 14:57 Rosenetka Amonet wrote: > > I would like to see what you have in mind Tjeti and > then go from there. Em hotep Rosenetka, I think I might have somehow gotten everyone confused inadvertantly. I did not bring up this discussion to discuss plot - but the novel's structure and future. I simply handed out a teaser in response to a post of Persenti's as sort of a coming attraction 'let's get everyone excited'. It wasn't meant to seem elitist or imply that I was forcing everyone to write what I wanted. My plot is in no way affected by the outcome of this discussion. It's like any other plot that anyone is working on in Qenbet - just what my character is doing. The only reason I say it impacts other characters is that, historically, the High Priest of Amun was one of the highest officials in Egypt. This means that my characters actions will be viewed by everyone in Egypt. Sort of like being in the eye of the media. I would hope that we shall not be distracted by my story ideas from the topic under discussion. *smile*
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-27-01 15:07 Tjeti, Honestly, if I were the only one feeling that eliticism permeates this group then I would not mention it. However, I am not the only one and even Rosenetka has posted her feelings in regards to the undertones of this discussion. And, if as you say, this subject comes up often, perhaps it is time to take a look at it. Also, please remember that not all my comments are directed specifically at you. If you are willing to discuss the basics of your storyline with the group members so they can be aware of whether or not it will directly affect those that they may be working on, then that is fine and fair. I have no argument with that. My comments regarding eliticism are directed towards those older members of the group that have made the newer members feel uncomfortable by constantly insisting the older Qenbet was better, the insinuation that previous plotlines have been mindless, trite posts, and even some going so far as to criticize other writers harshly when their opinion was not asked for. The discussion of the direction of the novel itself was not what I was referring to in regards to eliticism. However, when you have newer members feeling distinctly uncomfortable, why should they post or even want to take part in these storylines or discussions? To get from one point to the other some things need to be resolved in between.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Mirjam Date: 05-27-01 15:20 I for one am happy to see there´s a discussion going again. But frankly - wouldn´t you all like to see some input from more members, like the royal family for example? It´s getting a wee bit boring to have only two major people to listen to ;) Besides, I wouldn´t be afraid of two plotlines clashing with each other. More drama, more challenge, more interest! ;) The good thing about writing about life instead of living it, is that here you can always find ways to go through hardships and difficulties, you can always make up for things, you can always adapt. The possibilities are endless - the only limits are the ones your fantasy put down. But - however fascinating discussions are, they should also lead to the result of bringing us all somewhere. And in this case it should be bringing us all to our storywriting.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-27-01 15:28 *laughing* Gee thanks, Mirjam! *grin* I would have to agree with you though, and I would also love to hear more input from other members, including the Royal Family. Right now though, I am going in search of some willow bark. *wink*
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: NahehAakhu Hatshepsut Date: 05-27-01 16:41 An Indian religious leader once said: "In India we do not talk about it, we just do it" She was actually referring to "sex", but funnily enough I think it might apply here also. While discussion is healthy, we seem to be going round and round in circles. In writing one uses one's creative imagination to create a character of depth (hopefully), carefully weaving in actions and re-actions to events happening around them. Let's just continue to do what we've always done.....write!
Apologies Author: Persenti Nebet Date: 05-27-01 18:32 I would like to extend my apologies to Tjeti who, unfortunately, bore the brunt of the conversation regarding eliticism. Though some of us feel it is an issue to be confronted, it clouded his original suggestion of a proposal for the focus of the group. A suggestion which I believe has true merit and will center everyone's attention on writing again instead of worrying how many citizens they have in their city. My apologies, Tjeti, I know you only have the group's best interest at heart.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: KaRa Date: 05-28-01 05:51 Back in AS we had this discussion many times. The dinosaurs and the newbies have had many conversations and all of it has come around to where it started which is a matter of opinion. I think that anyone who feels he is looked down upon should get together with others of the same feeling and make up a good plot and write and enjoy himself. If people cannot do that here because they resent Tjeti or anyone for bringing up changing Qenbet and wanting a discussion of it perhaps they should make their own novel. I am being most sincere here. I would not like to see anyone leave. As an alternative to quitting, it might be nice if we could take some posts into the writers workshop and analyze them as we did in school. We could say what was liked and what did not work. We could even get down to the grammar. We could all learn. Remember the teachers pounding in who, what, when, where, why? In this way when we have concrete examples to discuss we can learn what the dinosaurs are trying to say and what the newbies mean. Do I have any takers? If there are not takers within one Egyptian week then I'll submit one of my stories for a critique.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 05-28-01 07:19 I haven't entered this debate before now for two reasons. Firstly that I hoped that we would see more than a few members post their views here. Secondly, I was hoping that the other board members would log in so that we could make a joint announcement about the Royal Family's plans and ideas for the future structure of both Qenbet and Virtual Kemet. We have been planning to do this for several weeks now, unfortunately we all have Real Lives and several of the board members have had to concentrate on them. As a consequence the board members have been focusing on getting the Coronation out of the way and encouraging the development of subplots that would fit into the national plotline. I now come to my point, we will be taking into account what has been said here and we would like to encourage any suggestions for storyline to be posted in the planning topic set up for the express purpose of discusssing Roleplay, namely 'Life in Qenbet VI'. I honestly can't tell you when we will be making the planned announcement but it will happen. Now onto the matter of the question of elitism. I don't care how many times we've had a debate with the dinosaurs/core members etc versus the newbies/non-core members. I don't care whether this elitism exists or not . I also don't care if its simply a misapprehension brought about by a throw away comment in a post. What I do care about is Qenbet so from now on the board wants every member of Qenbet to know that their opinions are valued, no matter how long they have been in this community and that every style of writing is welcomed and valued. I'm sorry this is long, but there is more to come. ::sigh:: The idea of using the 'Qenbet Writer's Workshop' topic for critiques is a good idea. But express permission will have to be obtained from the author/authors of any post that is the subject of any critique. May I suggest that anyone wanting a post to be the subject of a critique posts this permission, along with a copy of their post in the 'Qenbet Writer's Workshop'. It pains me to have to issue such a warning but there has already been an instance when an unsolicited critique has been sent by one Qenbet member to another Qenbet member. Please remember that this is supposed to be fun and any post that breaks netiquette or Qenbet's guidelines will attract the attention of the board members and any appropriate action will be taken.
A New Direction - If I May.... Author: Iset Ahhotep Date: 05-28-01 09:48 I read through this discussion of finding a new direction last night and frankly I was a bit shocked at the fact that the question still has not be answered. I'll speak up. I apologize for not doing it sooner, however, I don't always have the time to pop in and for that I'm sorry. I think concentrating on writing is a wonderful direction for this group to go. I'm hardly one of the old guard here. I was at AS and held the title of Nomarch, but when moving here I shed my title and only want to write. I'm of the opinion that too much administration can be like a strangle hold on creativity. Maybe I just don't understand the need for heirarchy here in Qenbet. Sure within our stories the royal family is a part of my characters life, but they don't dictate what my personal story is. We need some guidelines to live by, but really do we all have to wait for someone to come up with a proposed story before we can write? The more people you have in a novel the more difficult it becomes to orchestrate everyone in unison. While Qenbet may be smaller than before it is still a large group. One of the things I've noticed across the sites and Qenbet seems to be one of these novels, is that the group seems to wait for someone to jump start the story. Why does this happen and why does it have to? Aren't we all in control of our characters? I know I am. I enjoy it when everyone is writing their own stories and then something will happen that will pull everyone together. An example would be Tombstone, yes I am Dutch Annie there, there are several little plots going on and we all have our favorite folks to write with. Our "writing partners" so to speak. Those that we write well with and for some, those relationships have developed over years. What's wrong with that? Every now and then Wyatt or I will toss out a town wide event. For instance the fire that burned down the core of the town. It was based on history and it did affect everyone in one way or another. What happened is individual stories were interrupted for a time being and some folks had to rebuild, BUT it gave them depth to their story. It let them show us how they would react to events. How is it any different here in Qenbet? My character has only just come back and she's in a different role than she was at AS. I look forward to telling her story here from her personal viewpoint, but she's also affected by the state of the country. Her life isn't only the country, she's got children and a family to care for, a job to secure and a life to live. All apart from what is happening on a state level. I am sure that when something happens, she will react to it and so what if it derails her personal story for the time being? That's what real life does too. As for the critiquing of posts, I would have to echo Thais here and point out that permission is indeed needed from the author. Criticism is not always welcome or easy to take. It is completely up to the author and I would encourage everyone to keep that criticism constructive. Afterall we want to be the best writers we can be don't we? *smile* So to make a very long winded post come to an end, I would much rather see Qenbet flourish with writing than become weighted down with too much administration. So I'm all for concentrating on the writing aspect and sinking my teeth into a story instead of a title or job around here.
RE: General discussion Author: Rosenetka Amonet Date: 05-28-01 11:24 I don't see how correcting some ones grammer is going to change/add to a plot or subplot. If they wish to improve on their grammer there is a section in the scriptorium. I am under the impression that we are to respect each others writing skills. I myself feel much more comfortable solving a math problem then putting together a paragraph.
New Direction Author: IrysNepthys Seshat Date: 05-28-01 11:40 You know what I think the problem is, here in Qenbet? The spirit is gone. Oh, there are isolated specks, and I've enjoyed our Per'aa's tremendously well-written posts, but overall, the spirit is gone. Yes, there were conflicts and problems back on the old Ancient Sites, and some of those issues I sense carry over. But, this is more than that. I just came back from an excellent few days vacationing up with friends in Massachusetts. I point this out because it mirrors a similar vacation taken last November. During my two hour drive back from there back then, I was filled with possibility for Qenbet, my mind delving into all aspects (story and factual) about Egypt. It didn't happen during this drive back, and I wondered why. That "new world" I knew then and loved is gone, and something which feels like a shell remains. Perhaps some of the loss of spirit is on my part. I don't know; with the spring I have had this could have played some role. I doubt that this is the entire picture, however. What did we change between then and now? It is not PH. I don't know what it is -- but the mourners are out on the streets
Spirit Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 05-28-01 12:03 Perhaps you are right, IrysNepthys, but I thought when the novel moved to Pan I might leave it forever - but I have not. I have stuck around and even gotten excited about new storylines. I can continue to do what I've been doing and write my stories with my writing partners (old and new). What I hoped to instigate with this topic was a sense of unity in Qenbet again. I really believe that to separate wheat from the chaff is what we want and to bring us ALL together. Perhaps that cause is lost? When older members talk about the old days - they are not talking about some ideal story or some wonderful writers or anything but the sense of Qenbet being UNIFIED. I think that it's a basic misunderstanding of what older members are saying that has led newer people to think that it's elitism about the good old days. It's not - it's simply the desire for the same thing that new folks want - the feeling of being one family working for one commonality. No one is being mean to each other here. I just feel like we're a family that has stopped talking to each other. We have a common interest - otherwise why this novel? We would go some place else if there wasn't something here that is unique to Qenbet. And when I look at what is unique about Qenbet, it's the writing and the stories. And no, I don't mean we're all Shakespeares here. I mean that even the most humble of writers in Qenbet stretches themselves up to the sun to make the best stories they can - stories that delight and edify us, here in Qenbet. It's giving your best to the story that I'm talking about. Not whether you're the next James Joyce or not. No one should feel shy in Qenbet about writing. The writer's workshop is a lovely idea and I'm sure that KaRa meant that people would only give themselves up willingly to a critique. And the workshop was created so that shyer writers could learn the tips and techniques of those that felt more confident. In the end - it's all about sharing our hearts and imaginations about this theme we all so love, Ancient Egypt. Let's do it. Let's reshape ourselves back into a family.
RE: We Need a New Direction Author: Akhet Ramesses Date: 05-28-01 15:17 My thoughts about the discussion go like this....... The conversation seems to have drifted from the first posts re. story-line, into the same old hand wringing that afflicted AS. I'm here to have FUN and maybe learn a little along the way, I think people should lighten up a bit really. So here are my (brief) ideas for possible plots that could give food for thought and affect us all to a greater or lesser degree.......Tell me what you think, but be gentle, I'm a sensitive soul. LOL 1 Climate change....Drought, rain, high winds. 2 ...Leading to possible famine/plague 3 War/conflict with neighbours or raiders from the sea which could affect trade etc... 4 A HUGE series of building projects that would require many architects, stonemasons and support services to move around the land, this would enable people to visit other nomes etc. And finally......(Who said hurray?!)....I think things will pick up when we get some web space, this will allow us to create new virtual cities like we had at AS. I always enjoyed seeing people's creativity and hard work and 'taking the tour of Kemet' sold me on AS when I first stumbled across it. I knew I'd come home!! And we can get that feeling back if we want to!!!!!
RE: Thank you, Tjeti Author: KaRa Date: 05-28-01 15:49 Pardon my bad writing, please. Instead of saying, "Do I have any takers?" I should have been more precise and said "volunteers." Of course we wouldn't just pick someones post out. It would have to be voluntary. It would have to be a post volunteered by someone who would not feel offended if someone said it was no good. Actually to say something is no good does not mean no respect but respect enough to comment in the first place. That is why I volunteered to post one of my posts in ten days if no one else wanted to offer his work for for a critique. *S* I should also mention that the volunteer would have a chance to explain his choices and ask questions of those who comment. It could be good.
Wonderful Possibilities Ahead Author: Siamun-Re Date: 05-28-01 19:30 Greetings everyone; I have read these heartfelt comments regarding the direction of Qenbet. Yes, I agree that things are different here at Panhistoria than at AncientSites. Yet I myself am warmed by the knowledge that so many of you persevered in coming to this new site. You have come with characters already richly developed back at AS. While we cannot turn turn back the proverbial sundial, we can forge ahead to the future while remaining faithful to our mutual yet cherished AS heritage. Much of the discussion seems to focus on what type of future I and the other members of the royal family have in mind. There are many interesting and exciting possibilities. Since I love surprises I will remain somewhat vague, but I for one have plans for foreign and domestic intrigue, a murder mystery, natural disasters and of course a war or two to spice up our lives. Your pharaoh is neither all wise nor all things to all people. Unlike my dear predecessors, the character of your present pharaoh is very Hellenistic (Notice that Pharaoh refers to Waset as "Thebes" all the time). He is a man from a previous generation and is veering Egypt back to the ways of the Ptolemies. He also is spending money faster than Midas (Lavish funeral of Osiris Nesnut and a plush coronation with gifts for everyone). This is a sure recipe for conflict. Some of you have noted this trend are are reacting to it. That's great!. In your individual posts, never be afraid to express dismay or disappointment at the wearer of the Double Crown. I will not wilt under criticism. I hope to post more frequently during the summer months. Never hesitate to contact me. I would welcome involving you in one of the stories which catch your interest. Rest assured I enjoy reading the evolving stories of others too. They all add richness to our novel. Qenbet can be what we want to make it. We have many wonderful possibilities ahead!
About the "new direction" discussion Author: Ahktenar Date: 05-28-01 20:30 Looking down at my flame thrower after reading the Boss's last post, I find that I'm less inclined to use it now. I'll put it away, at least for now. I've been gone for the last week and just now finished reading the latest discussion. My initial reaction was "$%^%##! @! $^&**&$&!! %$@$%#$#, not again!" "Hmmm....how did this flame thrower get back in my hands again?" Puts it back into it's little box. Ok....deep breaths....let's try again. We've gotten rid of most of the bureaucracy. Except for the Royal Family and a couple of advisors, NO ONE is required to do the dirty jobs. No position/office holder is required to do anything but write stories. We do encourage research and web pages to share your knowledge, but NOTHING is required. VK is already being revamped to include the suggestions made in this latest discussion, and the ones back on AS. They aren't done yet. We've been busy doing things with higher priority. Besides, they haven't given us webspace for a permanent home for it yet. Plots and sub-plots. Yeah! The more the merrier! I hope to whatever god you favor that they do clash and interfere with each other. That's how it works in interactive role-play. (Note the word 'interactive') If we all discuss all the plots and everyone agrees to what will happen, that means we will have a set script to follow. That will leave out a lot of creativity, and limit the surprise twists that we all love. Personally, if we switch to following a "script", rather than free form RP, I'm gone. Each plot should have a leader or director, with maybe a few core people "in the know". Everyone else should adlib and have fun throwing the director a curve now and then. We chose SiamunRe/Kaptah to be our Pera'a so that he could be more of a director of the storyline, rather than an administrator. We have others to do the dirty jobs. However, he can't do it all. That's why Tjeti and Rose and anyone else can be the "director" for their sub-plot. Elitism? Newbies feeling left out? Yes to all of it. We dropped the idea of separate threads for the cities so that everyone would be forced to play together. I knew that the so-called elitists, dinosaur cliques, newbie rebels, and whatever other factions we have going would eventually clash. I think this is that clash. What I hoped would happen after the clash, would be that all the differences would then be forced to work together, or give Qenbet up as a lost cause. Which shall it be? You will find that the board members will not be as active in these discussions as everyone else. That's so that we can hear what you say and not just listen to ourselves talk. Personally, I've said the same things over and over again, and I'm sick of me saying it. Now, you've all voiced opinions on problems you see in Qenbet. It's time for solutions. Perhaps what we've been doing isn't the best way. Give us concrete suggestions to solve the problems. If the problem is lack of direction, suggest a direction. Be specific! If the problem is newbies feeling left out, then tell us how to fix it. Be specific! Sorry if this was a bit disjointed. I'm ill and I'll lay the blame on the medicine. *g*
RE: About the "new direction" discussion Author: IrysNepthys Seshat Date: 05-28-01 21:21 Flamethrower? What in this thread would have called for a flamethrower? There are disagreements on direction here, but I don't see that as being something to make someone need to stifle back his flamethrower that he might otherwise use. Ahktenar, if you'd like concrete suggestions, consideration of the above is one of them. Your post, unfortunately, strikes this reader as being patronizing, which isn't going to be helpful solving any problems long term. -- Regards, Irys.
The New Direction Author: KaRa Date: 05-29-01 06:40 Perhaps the answer to our difficulties lies not in trying to blend together but to compete with each other. Let us see which group comes up with the most interesting story. The Coronation is over. Those with new positions have a fresh challenge. Those who have had positions must learn the ways of a new regime. We are on an even footing. What will be the outcome?
Something Old, Something New Author: Jonamun Date: 06-04-01 19:09 I recently sent a long note to about twenty members of Qenbet. The responses were almost exclusively good ones and I want to thank each one who wrote back. Several suggested posting the note here on the boards and going out on a limb with some suggestions. Even got a comment on the note from a neighboring kingdom[evidently the grape vine is in full operation]. So, here it is, with some needed modifications and some additions based on the kind responses I received. Pour yourself some tea, cuz if you stay with this post 'til the end you will either get thirsty, or want something to pour over my head. When Qenbet held its election in the wake of Nesnut's withdrawal from the throne, it was made in the awareness that AS was slated for oblivion and that Qenbet would, largely, migrate here to Panhistoria. But there were some issues simmering and boiling at AS, and despite the change of venue and changes of structure, some of those issues migrated with us and remain unresolved. I too would rather move forward and see discussions on Qenbet's future, but I think, given the obvious hackles being raised in the discussion so far, that the hatchets need burying first. Or, at the least, they need airing out. Privately. [The risk here is in inadvertantly beginning a group therapy session where everybody trots out their grievances, past and present. That would be chaos, and I'll state early that it is *not* what this post is advocating. That sort of thing belongs, like therapy, behind closed doors, and is best handled among the individual participants in private conversations.] I count myself fortunate to have among my friends here in Qenbet both veteran dinosaurs and the new breed of talent; old kings, fresh nomarchs. Not long before AS was rumored to be on its last breath, the discussion on cities-vs-court threads revealed an interesting and fundamental disconnect between these groups. Neither 'side' was to blame for the disconnect, even though the results were fractious and damaging. Although I wasn't there for its inception, I understand that one of the cornerstones in the creation of Qenbet was the deliberate choice among the founders that they would 'live' like the ancient Egyptians for whom they had such deep admiration and interest in. That meant a monarchy, religious and administrative both. It meant voluntarily playing a role of subservience to Cleopatra or her successor, Nesnut. [It's good to be king.] It didn't mean you had to play under a tyrant, but rather under that most efficient governmental form: a benign dictator. They did it by choice. As 'Life In Qenbet' flourished, more members joined in, and also volunteered to participate under this format. It was part of the fun, part of the role-play, part of experiencing a Pharaonic world. Granted, it wasn't an absolute monarchy, but that was the concept. With the creation of city threads, we saw an infusion of good new blood, and the installation of good leaders as nomarchs. These nomarchs brought talent with them and brought good group skills to facilitate the growth of their city communities. They also brought that new-fangled beast we call democracy. Granted, it wasn't an absolute democracy, but again, that was the concept. Obviously, conflict was INEVITABLE. Both systems obviously worked fine in and of themselves, but the problem was that neither 'side' recognized the fundamentally different approach at the heart of the other mindset. I recall conversations where a Qenbet veteran would say, "Don't they[the cities] know that's not how it's done?!" And I recall conversations where a new nomarch would say, "Don't they[the court] know they can't act like monarchs?!" Please stop and reread those last two paragraphs. That's real. That's serious. That's about as polemic as it can get. [Them's fightin' words, General Lee!] The answer to both questions was, "No." Neither side could know the other side was clueless about the other's premise. Unfortunately the separation of court and city led to what someone wiser than myself calls the 'insularity effect'. Communication dwindled, the commonality of a single thread became the insularity of many threads. In essence, the court and cities might just as well have been different kingdoms, even different websites. It was like bringing a football player and a baseball player together and expecting them to agree on how to go yachting. So, admin posts coming out of Qenbet fell like iron-clad edicts on the ears of the cities, and posts coming out of the cities were sounding like mad revolution to the Qenbet. Cities felt unappreciated and ignored, like weird uncles in Qenbet's basement. The court felt unlistened to too, an old institution mystified by it's own step-children. Who's to blame for the misunderstanding? Probably no one. Who's responsible now? Probably everyone, certainly me. Inactivity breeds complacency, and in our complacency we've allowed a kink in our spine to degenerate and worsen, branching into a massive backache that threatens to hobble us every time a hot-button issue arises. Time hasn't healed this wound, but rather fed it. It wasn't the court, it wasn't the cities, it wasn't the people. It was the insularity effect, it was the misunderstanding of mindsets on monarchy vs democracy, it was little disagreements sparking into skirmishes burgeoning into entrenchments turning into...well, turning into now. I suggest the nomarchs and active members of the court meet and agree that a series of miscommunications, stemming from a misunderstanding, have since caused hot feelings, anger, sullenness, etc., etc., etc. Further, agree that EVEN IF YOU CANNOT *STAND* ONE ANOTHER, you will, as leaders, NOT let us suffer because of it. Put your collective heads together and hash out a way to blame poor communication, make the monarchy vs democracy issue your scapegoat, and once one agreement is reached, savor it, and go for another. Confront the issue of how to communicate between a monarchical court and democratic nomes. A choice between the systems isn't needed, just the establishment of communications between them. It's not a brilliant solution, is it? It's the solution we hear all the time, the one we all know already, the one we think we've tried until we're blue in the jowls and yet know full well we haven't tried enough of. To my admittedly limited knowledge, this issue still remains un-aired between the administration and the cities, and you can see it swimming like a shark just beneath the surface of the recent "New Direction" discussion. As has been noted in the thread, Qenbet has lost writers old and new during the migration. Whole cities have vanished. Obviously there are other issues that remain unresolved, but this one, at least, seems amenable to solution. It starts with those who have volunteered to be leaders of court and nome, those who volunteered to go the extra mile even when facing a hurricane of thick-headed people like me. Make me understand why things are done the way they are done. Explain it to me until your blue jowls turn purple and explode. When the look on my slack-jawed face tells you I must be an idiot beyond redemption, explain it again with the patience of a god. And when I tell you what I want, listen as if I were brilliant, listen as if I weren't the gazillionth person to repeat what you've heard a gazillion times, listen as if I were the first person to tell you the sky over Kemet is very very blue. I'd like to reiterate my concerns that this not generate a flood of public grievances, and stress that the public boards are not a place for that. When expressing this concern before AS died, I felt it was best handled between the administration and the nomarchs who could then handle it in their individual cities. I still do. The mouth behind, Jonamun
RE: Something Old, Something New Author: Akhenheru Hatshepsut Date: 06-05-01 10:49 Well, like I said at AS, I was sure to blame for the "city people" ignorance myself. And there have been times where I certainly have felt ignored by those that weren't in my closely-knit little circle in Iunu (y'all know who you are) -- not just in the discussion threads, but in RP and in announcements as well. I have also seen the different conflicts between people that Jonamun was talking about -- what was seemingly going on in the Fifth Nome at AS, for example -- and I agree that personal conflicts are best kept in private and out of the Qenbet. I also think we should put all these things behind us. Since we have the opportunity to start at a new site, with a new format, and a clean slate, we should try and make the most of it! :-)
On a Lighter Note.... Author: Lotus Date: 06-07-01 08:48 Anyone interested in following the excavations at the bay of Alexandria can go to: Franck Goddio -- Aboukir
The New Direction Author: Basteta-Tiye Date: 06-11-01 14:12 Basteta-Tiye’s Response After reading all the direction posts, the Great Royal Wife has decided to comment. This post was almost complete and then I was summarily booted off the network so this is an attempt to reclaim my thoughts on the matter. Our spirit isn’t dead but rather tired out from all the rough changes and just beginning to emerge from mourning the loss of AS. We had hoped for a much smoother process and I grieve for all the friends I have lost. Real life hasn’t been a party either for most of the board and that doesn’t help matters. But there have always been ebbs and flows in the story tides and we are still too dependant on the Royals and a few, highly productive authors to generate all the excitement. This happened in the cities and the court at AS. The rest of Qenbet needs to take up the slack when things quiet down. I can’t stress that enough – everyone wants to criticize but you have to participate for things to improve. I am all for the creation of off-site web pages that tie into our life here, whether they illustrate the novel or provide education and ideas. They make our stories richer by inspiring new ideas and further collaboration between authors. This is a great way to recreate the cities and continue many of the interests that we all enjoyed at AS. As GRW, I am inaugurating a new writers group to address many of the concerns expressed here. Please read the topic and participate everybody. The administration has slimmed down but can’t disappear since life in ancient Egypt required that structure to function. You have to know where you fall in the scheme of things to write historically. I have always wanted to be able to “chart” when and where we are in the story line and what the major future events would be but never could get enough input to construct a web page. I know that things need to be flexible and that things change but it would be very helpful to have a few signposts along the way. Perhaps we might have a topic on the planning boards where you can post your characters feelings on current events and a few coming attractions as to storyline plans. That ought to generate a few new alliances and story ideas. Let’s get rid of the labels, shall we? No more newbies, dinosaurs, city folk, founding members, etc. We are all part of the Qenbet family and that is all the label we need.
ATTN ALL: role play reminder Author: Basteta-Tiye Date: 06-13-01 04:52 With the current storylines becoming so convoluted please be very careful with details such as time and place. Also if you are including other players characters, however briefly, please check with that person before posting. There have been a few mistakes that have resulted in a great deal of confusion. Many people have been asking for details on various storylines and please understand that the authors may not be at liberty to divulge the information or are reserving some details for surprises. I have finally caught up again with all the role play posts and it was a great read. Thanks everyone! Basteta-Tiye Great Royal Wife
The opening of a new chapter of LIQ. Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 06-15-01 07:00 The Board has decided to open a new chapter in Life In Qenbet This is both in honor of the recent Coronation of Siamun-Re (a,u,s!) and also in response to feedback that the thread has become too large for some of our members to find their way around it. The Board realises that some of the membership will have experienced no problems with the size of the thread, however, we have decided that the ending of the Coronation provides an appropriate opportunity to begin a new thread for Life In Qenbet. The new thread will be called, strangely enough: Life In Qenbet VII *g* and an OOC (out of character) thread, entitled Life In Qenbet: OOC will be placed in the Planning Board. The old OOC thread Life In Qenbet VI will also be closed. These two threads will NOT be deleted but will remain on the Novel and Planning boards.
Unfortunately confused.... Author: Henuttiwy Corinth Date: 06-24-01 17:20 Could you please help this poor confused Egypto-Grecian? If people posting in the Novel could please post where they are, either in the subject header, or at the beginning of any given post... I'd know if what they are doing is occurring in Waset or Alexandria, or somewhere else entirely. This is not always easy to tell. I have to track more things in life than guessing where everyone is. Please, say where you are in your posts. I am certain that I'm not the only one who wonders, I'm just the one who is asking here and now. Thanks! -- Henuttiwy. Who is afraid she usually considers this simple politeness, although she recognizes that sometimes accidents happen.)
With Apologies To Henuttiwy Author: Akhenheru Hatshepsut Date: 06-26-01 16:09 I'm sorry....I know I'm one of those people who forgets to put where they are in the title.... *grr* I can't seem to get into the habit of it! *lol*
IMPORTANT:PLEASE READ THIS! Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 06-29-01 14:29 Please do as Lily asks and pass on this information. "The IMPanel Bug and How YOU Can Help Author: Lily Sutherland Date: 06-29-01 14:02 Hi everyone! We seem to still have a bug in our IMPanel and that's why it looks like we have so many people online all the time. We really need your help. The reason it looks like there are so many of us here is because some of you have been bumped off and just closed your browser instead of logging out properly. Unfortunately, when the site bumps you and tells you that you're logged out, it's lying to you. You're still on the panel. So when there are a bunch of you who have done that, it starts gumming up the works and is now affecting people trying to log in. I know it's really a pain, but if you can, after you've been bumped off PLEASE come back and login and then out again properly. It would help to clean up the panel and clean up the works a bit. The communication system we have takes a lot of RAM and so it's slowing things down a bit as well. It would be helpful if you could pass this information on to everyone you talk to and Board Members, please post this in your novels. There are folks out there who don't read the daily index or the memberboards. It's impossible for me to leave this message on every novel board. Feel free to copy and paste this exact message to your boards. Thanks for your help. We really need to get the word out on this one folks. *smile* "
This Poor Roman is Confused Author: Juliet Pinguinus Date: 07-10-01 05:04 I'm a bit confused as to what is going on in Waset. Who is Queen Sekhmere that Tannis is asking to see? I think I must have missed a huge part of this story somewhere. Is the riot still going on when Tannis enters Waset?
RE: This Poor Roman is Confused Author: Sekhmet Meritamen Date: 07-10-01 06:27 Em hotep Juliet Pinguinus The Queen Sekhmet that he is requesting to see, is me, however, I am not yet a Queen, and I will be a secondary one at that - my husband, the High Priest of Amen (Imen) had not yet married the heir of the former Pharaoh, Ma'atIbRe Nesnut Hatshepsut, the Princess Aschere, nor has he yet made her his Great Wife. My character, who is about to post, will remind him of these things. The short version of it is my husband and the Priests of Amun have staged a rebellion against the current Regime in Alexandria under Pharaoh SiamunRe. We have in essence split the country and it is now a matter of war. Civil war is confusing and sides will be chosen, and people *will* die. There will be winners and there will be losers, my only advice would be to stay tuned, this is a storyline that has already been developed, and we think people will be pleased.
Reining in the Runaway Chariot Author: Sekhmet Meritamen Date: 07-10-01 07:32 Its come to my attention, that the drivers in the chariot race, that is the Qenbet storyline, have rather given their horses their head, and let them run laps leaving the rest in the dust. I think it may be time to maybe back off the whip a bit, and just pull up a bit. In other words, we need to slow down just tad. Tjeti has only just proposed to Princess Ashere. Rioting may hav started already, but probably not to the frenzy that we are at now. My character is not yet a queen, and she will be very shocked when Tannis addresses her as such. We have time, we have forward momentum, but we perhaps need to let othres catch up just a little bi, letting them react and re-react to events, rather than bolting for the finish line. Thoughts? Suggestions?
RE: Reining in the Runaway Chariot Author: Ashere Hatshepsut Date: 07-10-01 11:54 I come back from a five-day hiatus offline and find... this... frenzy. Eh? *warm laughter* Sekhmet is correct! Let's slow down people, let those literary horses have a breather before we go galloping on. Neither Sekhmet nor Ashere are queens yet. Pigeons do not fly at the speed of light. The news of the rebellion will take days, at least, to reach Alexandria -- let's allow those little wings to flutter away, and take our time with responding posts, yes? Let our characters catch their electric breaths and assimilate what's happened to them. After all, this uprising would be shocking to the ancient Kemetu mind, and shock takes a while to get over. *chuckle* We have plenty of time to plan. Let's keep the communication lines open, plan our stories ahead, and craft a superb, carefully thought out, and, oh yes... realistic story. Cheers!
RE: Reining in the Runaway Chariot Author: Melissa Xanthippos Date: 07-10-01 13:01 Plan? How can we plan when we don't even know where this story is going? I'm a little upset (this is the most polite wording I can use) that as a co-author of this novel I have yet to see any planning posts. Nor the oportunity for me or anybody else to be able to voice our opinions on such plots that are accuring.
Giddy up and damn the torpedos Author: KaRa Date: 07-10-01 13:56 Did I say that? What am I talking about. Please excuse me, I'm a bit dizzy from my wagon ride back from Kharga, my husband is fooling around behind my back, Ashere just whitewashed all my hard work in the throneroom after that gay decorator screwed it up by hanging purple drapes and everything and now Mirjam wants to know if I sailed with her ship to Philae and how come the shadows know all about my secret passages and we never finished convicting the grave robbers. Basteta grammed me to say that her cats would chase the beloved dog I stole from Nesnut. I think I had better sit down and have a good conversation with myself. Please excuse me for a few hours. *S*
RE: Giddy up and damn the torpedos Author: Henuttiwy Corinth Date: 07-10-01 15:55 I am in accord with Melissa's and KaRa's posts here... a bit more discussing and a bit less confusion.. . We've got the space on these planning boards, which could help.
Roll Call: Where the heck on the map is everybody at!?! Author: Sekhmet Meritamen Date: 07-10-01 19:08 Kara: I thought, (and I'm not sure why I thought it, to be honest) that you were doing the throne room in Alexandria! It would help me to know where everyone is at. We know SiamunRe, Basteta-Tiye, Thais et al are in Alexandria - Tjeti and I and Boah and Messalina are in Waset. Help! We need to figure out where everyone is situated!
RE: Roll Call: Where the heck on the map is everybody at!?! Author: KaRa Date: 07-10-01 20:37 Sekhmet, shame on you. You haven't been reading my stories. Well, seriously, I am the master architect of upper Kemet. When SiamunRe left to be crowned in Mennefer I wasn;t invited because I would not be needed and there is much to be done to finish off the palace anyway In the meantime I have been digging out your husband's tomb in the valley north of kv. I am a hard boiled Wasetite although I did travel to the Kharga Oasis for a few hours yesterday and I plan to go to Philae by tomorrow AM. things have gotten a little fast around here. I wish you were not so dead set against space ships. They would be so convient or maybe we could just beam down here and there. You have never forgiven me for posting that bit about the spacecraft at Karnak in the Thutmose family board back in AS. Ok, a quick quiz....!. who has my character been sleeping with lately? 2. Who has my husband been sleeping with? and 3.Who did design the palace in Alexandria?
Mea Culpa, Kara Author: Sekhmet Meritamen Date: 07-10-01 21:00 Ive not been paying alot of attention to everyone's posts. That isn't personal, believe me, ask any of my writing partners and they will tell you they have to prod me to get me to write. Its not for lack of wanting to - Ive been very busy both on and off site, and admittedly Ive not carefully read each post. There are so many as of late its hard to keep track of everyone.
Rebellion Begins Author: Siamun-Re Date: 07-10-01 21:49 Greetings O Loyal (and Disloyal) Subjects; *Grin* Yes, as many of you have anticipated, the Rebellion has finally begun. The realm is being split into two spheres, the north dominated by Siamun-Re and the south controlled by the supporters of Tjeti-Ashere. Thus, at least right now, the settings for most of our stories are taking place in Thebes (Waset) and Alexandria. Things will grow somewhat confusing as we slide into full scale civil war. At the present, the pharaoh in Alexandria remains unaware of the revolt, but the old guy will find out soon enough and begin to react to it. The war promises to be our version of the American Civil War, with brother pitted against brother. There are two visions being offered for the future of Egypt, but only one will triumph. Should provide lots of opportunities for both tragedy and heroism. I urge all folks to read through all stories carefully before posting. That was we can avoid little mistakes as to location of other characters and such. We hope that you will all enjoy this scenario! Siamun-Re
RE: Rebellion Begins Author: Tjeti Priest Date: 07-10-01 22:19 Excellent advice, oh great Pretender! *grin* I'm having an excellent time and yes, there have been a few errors as far as who is where and when - but all errors of enthusiasm for a good story I think. That can't be anything but a good sign. I am continuing in the same plan I have had all along for many months. My character is now in open rebellion against Siamun-Re. I reside in Waset. Stories taking place around me are taking place in various locales in Upper Egypt. Some posts are reactions to what Siamun-Re posts and some are carefully planned in advance. When I plan in advance I plan with the writers that are going to have their characters intimately involved in my actions. I don't post them on planning boards because I like to think that people enjoy following along and being surprised. I don't care for spoilers. But I carefully follow the rules of etiquette and do not use characters that I've not consulted - unless I know that we're playing virtual tennis and all we need to do is lob posts at each other. If I was to use, for instance, the architect KaRa in one of my posts (which I hope to, so when are you in Waset again, nebet?), I would message KaRa either at her home or in an IM and find out what works for her before composing the post.
RE: Rebellion Begins Author: Mirjam Date: 07-11-01 03:28 KaRa, your posts usually have me Roll On The Floor, Shaking With Laughter! I enjoy your sense of humour tremendously :-) As for being confused - since I´ve been offline for so long, I´m finding it difficult to get back in and my last post was a bit rushed. I might have to redo it. My character is waiting, have been waiting to go back home to Philae to have her baby for months by now, heh... and always there´s a funeral or coronation, and now a civil war coming in-between. So....anyway, I´m with the Tjeti fraction and I have some things to think of. For the moment I´m in Waset, or have just left it, I don´t know which, haha! KaRa, you will eventually come up to Philae, dog and all.;-) And Tjeti, the Overseer of Upper Kemet is at your service. Of course.
RE: The Rebellion Author: KaRa Date: 07-11-01 07:26 I would like to address a couple of people publicly here, if I may. 1. Mirjam, dear friend, I will be pleased to go to Philae to design your home the way we planned but I think we should put if off for a bit and I think you should remain in Waset since your husband is currently huddled in the office at the palace getting ready to be led away to safety by Mennefertaten in one of my escape tunnels. I can't wait. I've been waiting for someone to use them for a long time. Also since you haven't mentioned just how pregnant you are in exact time perhaps you would consider being pregnant a bit longer because if Tjeti wins you are only going to have to stop labor and go crown him or if SiamunRe croaks you'll have to officiate over the burial unless he decides to go the Greek way on a funeral pyre. Ptolemy will bring the marshmallows. Another thing is that I have decided to compete with Itet and Ashere in erotic posts. Please quit laughing at my work. You are supposed to encourage junior writers to expand their abilities. 2. I am afraid that I must publicly apologize to Basteta for having Nesnut's dog chase her cats around the palace without her permission. I never consulted her. 3. Tjeti, Tannis dropped me off in Waset so I am back home and able to work on your tomb or your palace, whichever you have need of first. 4. Welcome back Kaptah. I have missed you. 5. I am a bit confused about where Queen Basteta is right now. Some posts are waiting for her to come to Per Bast to bury her cat and others state that she is as yet in Alexandria. 6. It is true that none of this has stuff about Tjeti challenging SiamunRe was discussed publicly. I have to admit, though, that I have been enjoying the whole thing except that I don't know how it will end and so I don't know who I should try to get in good with. My character possesses absolutely no political savey. She likes SiamunRe because he let her decorate the palace the way she wanted to and she likes Tjeti because she had fun being trapped in the tomb with him and rescuing Djedibre. 7. IF ANYONE WANTS TO BE IN ON ANY STORYLINE DO NOT SIT ON THE SIDELINES LIKE A WALLFLOWER. INSTANT MESSAGE, E-MAIL, OR LEAVE A MESSAGE AT THE PER OF THE ONE WHOSE STORY INTERESTS YOU. It would be nice to iron out everything about the plot lines in advance but as we know, here in Qenbet you can not please everyone and if you try to your story line will go flat being picked to death. I rather enjoy the surprises. 8. I would like to answer one of my quiz questions. The palace of Cleopatra in Alexandria was designed by our very own Tjatey, and now hereditary prince, Ahktenar Mutemwiya. It had links to the city of Alexandria made by Karamy Isetnofret. That is the real reason why the character of KaRa Thutmose never touched the palaces in Alexandria. It was already done. The Hatshepsut palace was never drawn by anyone so I asked Nesnut if I could do it and she gave me free reign. Visit the palace of Cleopatra here.
RE: The Rebellion Author: Mirjam Date: 07-11-01 14:29 Okay, KaRa, I take it you want me to drop my baby right on the Avenue of the Sphinxes? The things I do for my friends..... *mutter...grumble*
RE: The Rebellion Author: KaRa Date: 07-11-01 17:20 Mirjam, you have a tough act to follow. Cleopatra was poisoned during the birth of her baby. Nesnut had a nice naming contest. If you remember, I won that and won't let anyone forget it. The infant Thothmes took a few posts to emerge. Sekhmet had hers during the time change. Anpua had Chinese twins, a boy and a girl. That makes six children born in all of Qenbet in about six years of history if I am not missing any. I think we may be quibbling about who rules Egypt and whether grammar is important a bit too much and not spending enough time making love here. Thais had better think of something spectacular to entertain us too. So, as a respectworthy Jurassic person, perhaps having the babe in the avenue of the sphinxes would be noteworthy and it would certainly show your loyalty to Tjeti. Maybe Jonamun could find something interesting. He did a great job of stitching up someone with the mandibles of ants. Serkhmet could assist with concocting a potent poultice to promote healing. How would you like that? Why not invite us all to help you? Basteta could glean the best suggestions from the writers group. We could take bets on whether it would be a boy or a girl and the winner could get 1,000 sistertii. Oops, I don't think we do that here or we could do like Nesnut and have a name that baby contest. What say you kheretheb nesew?
Fab Idea! Author: Akhenheru Hatshepsut Date: 07-11-01 19:12 I like the "Name That Baby contest" idea! :-) I joined AS long after the birth of Prince Djedibre (may his ka shine in the West) So this'll be lots of fun. Now that Akhen's getting on in years, too *hee hee*, I think it's time she possibly settled down & had a baby. Any suggestions/ideas?
Clarification Author: Ashere Hatshepsut Date: 07-13-01 06:44 There seems to be some confusion as to what has and has not taken place in Waset. *smile* Please allow me to set a few things straight: The character of High Priest Tjeti has accepted that declaring himself PerAa will be inevitable, however he has not declared himself King at the present time. Neither Ashere nor Sekhmet are Queens, yet. *smile* We need confirmation from various sources, before taking such drastic action... and of course, Tjeti must first marry Princess Ashere in order to substantiate his claim to the Heru Throne -- and that will not take place until sometime next week. I would like to bring up that all these political shenanigans are in-story only. A tight weave between in-character power and group dynamics has been part of Qenbet "tradition" from the first. Cleopatra was both RP PerAa and leader of the group. Nesnut was both RP PerAa and leader of the group. Now... we have board members who play the Royal Family and are directing the group. Yet this current storyline, the Rebellion we're in midst of, is story only. Please understand this. I fear there may be confusion over this point. There is no intent of "taking over Qenbet", dear friends. *smile* As traumatic as the Rebellion is proving for our characters -- and as we head into Civil War, it will only become worse -- events in LIQ should not be affecting backstage group dynamics. Should not. I sincerely pray they are not.
RE: Clarification Author: Allanon Date: 07-13-01 07:24 Thank you, Ashere. I think you have stated what has been on our minds for a while now. My sister, Sekhmet, Anpua, and others have been trying to convince Tjeti that the Rebellion is indeed what needs to happen. However, as the Princess Ashere has mentioned, nothing is formalized, yet. The Uraeus does not rest on anyone else's brow, at present, other than that of SiamunRe and the Royal family, which include Basteta-Tiye, Thais, and Amaunet, all of whom are in Alexandria. At this point, civil war is merely brewing and people invovled in the storyline are writing mainly about people's reactions and actions during this time of great socital, religious and political turmoil. Such periods in history encourage people to rist be the best or sink to be the worst that they can be. What a great opportunity for storytelling! Experience it, even if it is fiction, it can be alot of fun, trust me! ;-)- There is no "grand plot" to take over Qenbet, nor would the Agents, Editors or Publishers of PanHistoria allow one to take place. There simply is no need for it. Your current novel editors and board of Qenbet are firmly in place, unless they decide to leave, which we all pray that they don't because they do an excellent job. Please try to remember that PanHistoria is structured in such a way, that those petty maneuvers are pointless. If you don't like something in a novel you are in, get together with some friends and write a new one! Gone are the days of political factionalisation from that other site. The heirarchies are broken, there will be no elections, no overthrows, no coup attempts. The only thing going on here is people trying to write an interesting story. And by the looks of it, you all are succeeding in that, because more of you are posting in Qenbet than ever before! From where this Agent sits, that is an exciting thing. Give yourselves a round of applause and remember to have fun. In other words, think abundance not lack, power within, not power over. You all know how to do this. So lets get to it! ;-)- Allanon (aka Angus McLeod), Agent
RE: Clarification Author: Rosenetka Amonet Date: 07-13-01 07:28 Yes it's true more people are posting now then before. And it's about time too. :)
RE: Clarification Author: Mirjam Date: 07-13-01 11:11 I haven´t seen so many people posting since.... uh... well, at least since we came in here. I´m not exactly sure what has brought this about - could it be that the hands behind Siamun-Re is back at the writer´s helm, do you think? He was always a master weaver of plots back at AS :-) Imagine to see people I didn´t even know were members of this novel, and who I haven´t seen before posting in here at pan, adding their stuff to the lot! Fascinating, simply fascinating! And please folks, mind what Allanon and Aschere pointed out - this is story writing - nothing else. It has nothing whatsoever to do with group dynamics or favouritism or anything of the sort. Nor is there any plans beyond writing a good and exciting story. So just write on, folks!
RE: General discussion Author: Mirjam Date: 07-13-01 12:13 Oh, and with all these writers and all these subplots and interactivity that inevitably goes on in these circumstances, I suddenly came to think about following from the Guide which we perhaps all should re-read from the dust-jacket: You may not kill or harm any other character without their express permission.
Mentioning Nomes by Numbers Author: Rosenetka Amonet Date: 07-13-01 13:35 I read a post where there are nomes mentioned, but it is not indicated if they are from Upper Kemet or Lower Kemet. The reason I bring this up is that the 13th Nome is mentioned, and this nome is mentioned as being a staunch supporter of Amun. I'm Nomarch of the 13th Nome of Lower Kemet and my nome is not a staunch supporter of Amun. I do not wish people to then assume that it is and post as such. So please when mentioning nomes by their numbers indicate if they are from Upper or Lower Kemet. That way the rest of us, who may not be in the know, won't get confused quite so easily. Thank you.
RE: Mentioning Nomes by Numbers Author: Ashere Hatshepsut Date: 07-14-01 16:26 Whups! *chuckle* As the guilty party, I admit to not knowing the names! Yes, I did use numbers, but I was also careful to name each capitial city, both by Kemetic & Greek name, in an effort to make things clear. The "15th" nome was the Hare Nome.... I'm not sure about Zawty, which is the 13th Nome of Upper Kemet. My apologies. Will make an effort to be more careful in the future.
Planning as a Community Author: Rosenetka Amonet Date: 07-20-01 10:37 I was wondering when we would be doing some planning together as a community. I could be wrong, but I believe if we plan stuff out together, we would become a stronger group with less confused souls and maybe, yes maybe even more interesting plot twists. If you don't like my idea, so be it. Shoot me for all I care. There are many other novels and community sites to play in and have fun. Unless ALL the members of this novel work together as a WHOLE we will NEVER become the premier novel of any site, let alone PanHistoria.
Astonished Author: Anpua Thutmose Date: 07-20-01 11:16 Yes, Rosenetka, you are correct. ~*~ Now... Astonishing. That’s the only word for what has happened these past several weeks. I am amazed, and am at wit’s end where to begin. Let me get this straight. I love Qenbet. Since I first found the group in December of ’98 I have loved it and have striven to make positive contributions. Love of Egypt and love of writing kept me there, love of friends kept me there. I was honored with the friendship of the hands behind Nesnut, acting as shoulder, advisor and sometimes confidant to our beleaguered former group leader, furnishing moral support through nerve-racking times. When Nesnut was driven out I stayed, for love of group, against my own burnout, for the sake of portraying Ashere. I declined the kind nomination to be PerAa due to RL time constraints and not due to any lack of affection for our virtual community. After Qenbet moved to Pan Itet & myself resumed the storyline we had been planning since the previous July – one that had evolved into plans for the “Rebellion” storyline. I got excited. Anpua was taken out of retirement. My writing returned, full force. Because the story Tjeti proposed was so powerful, because it had potential to be the strongest story Qenbet has ever had, and I faith in that potential. What could be more thrilling than a country divided? The religious and spiritual aspects, the dynamics of sexual obsession and political power, the struggle to decide the fate of a nation, all wrapped up in our beloved Kemet… how the possibilities thrilled me! We began setting the stage, in conjunction with our good PerA’a, Siamun-Re. But poor communication is a Name of Apep, it seems. Neither Tjeti, Sekhmet nor the board are to blame for that. Both “sides” thought they had a handle on what was to happen within the story – last weekend, the differences in vision became clear. The lack of communication had blasted us all. So.. intense negotiations and work over the weekend. Things seemed to have been resolved, and an agreed-upon plotline settled upon. I thought all was well. But all is not well. And I will now speak. Nobody is “right” here. Nobody is “wrong” here. Miscommunication and misunderstanding cumulated in a messy, emotional Gordian knot. Nobody intentionally created it. Yet repeated attempts to untangle the monster have regrettably failed. It was to my understanding that our characters would die but anyone who chose to write on the “side” of the Waset faction would have the option of pardon. It was to my understanding that this was one of the agreements made last weekend. Yes… here it is, in the email approved by Basteta: ”Siamun-Re will correct his mistakes, will swoop in and ease the suffering of Upper Egypt in chaos after the loss of Tjeti, reunite the Two Lands, and pardon the remaining rebels…”(quoting Tjeti) There were no insulting IMs or letters from the “rebellion” leaders. Not to my knowledge. There are no threats perceived towards the “rebellion” leaders. Not to my knowledge. However, I was told by a member of Qenbet that they had been informed that their job within the group government would be taken away from them if their character “joined” the Waset faction. This is not rumor. I have it from the government member, who shall remain nameless. (Perhaps that was a misunderstanding? Perhaps it was meant the character’s job would be taken away, not the group member’s job? Was that point ever clarified?) In face of that… Ahktenar’s post reminding the membership that their characters might be executed for siding with the Waset faction in story… does not sound like a threat to my ears. However, accidentally as it probably was, it does read like coercion. Several weeks ago, rumors were being spread that Tjeti & Sekhmet’s stories were cover for an actual attempt to take over Qenbet. Not only is this utter hogwash, but it cannot be done here at Pan. From what I understand of last weekend’s negotiations, those rumors had been given more credence than they deserved. I am not saying the board has not labored hard indeed. It is exhausting work to run any group, novel or otherwise. The board’s efforts are to be commended. When elections were held at AS, I voted for Siamun-Re/Kaptah. I was most familiar with his work, knew he was a good man, and had faith in his ability to craft a fun plot. It was my understanding that storyline matters would be his domain, and the rest of the board would control backstage administration. Perhaps that was a misunderstanding on my part. Those points said… Emotions are high. And I suspect the dynamics of backstage power have filtered into this situation despite everyone’s best efforts. Back at AS, I witnessed the driving away of the hands behind Cleopatra. I worked beside the hands behind Nesnut, strove to help keep the group whole through the shameful stretch of the Time Jump War, watched backstage politics nearly destroy the group time and time again. (This is a hobby! Yet Qenbet was fought over like a matter of life and death.) And I had a ringside view of the crap that finally cost us Nesnut. None of that drove me from Qenbet. None of that could destroy my faith in the group. But since the migration to Pan I have heard unrest – all distant, all concerning other people – never coming into confrontation myself. Until this mess with the current storyline came up. All our battles fought before. All our group’s hard work. I hate to turn my back and go at the last, but pray my fellow members will understand. Part of me is dead now. The faith and joy that bound me to this group is broken. I will not be painted as a rabblerouser. I will not be fingered as a villain, nor stand by and watch people I care for portrayed as villains. Ultimately, nobody and everybody is to blame here. Having devoted over two and a half years of my life fighting to keep Qenbet whole, I refuse to be portrayed as one who desires deconstruction. (Putting it mildly.) “WE” have also wanted out for weeks but stayed in order to not let down people who were expecting the story to happen. “WE” have also tried to keep all problems and discussion in the background. That this thing apparently cannot be rationally and privately resolved is a great sadness for me. Pulse rates are high on both “sides”. Ourselves, the board… all have been put through emotional anguish over what should have been a enjoyable group project. I am not blaming the board. They have worked hard. Nesnut is an almost impossible act to follow, and perhaps that is the root of Qenbet’s ills here at Pan. But that is another discussion entirely. I hate confrontation. Those who know me best know that I do not seek to injure others, especially others’ emotions. Basteta, Thais, Ahktenar, Siamun: if my actions or words have caused any of you distress, I sincerely apologize. It was never and never will be my intent. Tjeti, Sekhmet, Ashere and others will be dying soon. Let us wrap those deaths up – it should not take more than a week – and then we will be gone, and trouble the board no longer. Please allow this last curtain call as a courtesy for long-time Qenbet members who wish to give their characters resolution. All we wanted was to craft good fiction. All we wanted was to inspire others to write and have fun. It grieves me tremendously that our good intentions – and your good intentions – have come to naught. I ask… no… I implore the board and all Qenbet members to put this unfortunate situation behind us. For the love of God, please, everyone! Do your part and do not give in to the temptation to flame. Let’s keep this situation civil. No more anger. No more arguments. Let us (Tjeti, Sekhmet & myself) finish our off characters’ lives and then Life In Qenbet will go on, peacefully, as it should. That is Ma’at. Respectfully, The hands behind Anpua/Ashere/Mouse
RE: Astonished Author: Caelum Valeria Messalina Date: 07-20-01 11:40 That was well said and beautifully written, Ashere.
RE: Planning as a Community Author: IrysNepthys Seshat Date: 07-20-01 14:50 Rosenetka, kudos for your post, and your point. We need to look forward, and build ourselves up as a community. Which does indeed mean planning *as a community*. I think we have no need for recriminations over the past; I have just read many heartfelt perspectives on both these current topic threads. Many people have done wonderful things here, but just as real, many people (on both sides) have been hurt. Hmmph, something like a real civil war.... sigh. I wish everyone well in the directions they choose to pursue. But I'd like to learn from the past, not just study it. I think we need clearer communications, and clearer plannings, more accessible to those on the periphery, than there have been. Maybe these events, evidently brewing since the old AS days, are a call for this? My goal in speaking here is to give gratitude to those who have worked long and hard for Qenbet's greater purpose (however percieved) and to come to some sort of forward resolution we can learn from and work with. Planning together with more consultation over the big moves sounds like a part of this. Em Hotep, Irys.
Sad To Say Author: KhenumRa Hatshepsut Date: 07-24-01 17:19 I must say I am sad and a little disappointed at what has happened here this last week. Doubly disappointed that someone would actually believe that people as full of integrity as Sekhmet and others, were trying to " take over ". And so what, if they did? It's just a NOVEL, not real life. Anyone who believes otherwise...*sigh* What Anpua has stated so elequently is true. I have been part of Qenbet, in a few guises, since the time of Cleopatra .I, too, had faith in the group. I stuck it out, as many did. It was a political structure, and we played it that way. It was roleplaying through writing. In AS ,as the Imey-er-Shema'ew, I never played politics, even though, historically, the Overseer of Upper Kemet was a virtual prince. I had more fun writing and flowing with the whole. Nes was a great boss. When I came to Pan I thought, " Great, no politics, just writing." It seems some people didn't get that message. Even though it was written all over- " This is a NOVEL, no need for a political structure" ! When I was informed of all the crap going on behind the scenes, I could only think, " Poor SiamenRe/ Kaptah ! I hope he can weather this." I respect him very much , and wish him well. I don't know who started this stuff, and frankly, I don't care. All I know is that some people I call friends got hurt in real life, and I'm sick and tired of it.When someone suggested that the rebels on the "Waset side" be killed off, I lost it. Especially since it was supposed to be a fun ride. Well, KhenumRa is not dying, but he will be resigning, and going home to Philae. Good luck, Qenbet. I mean it. Perhaps, in light of what's happened, the Royal Family should be NPCs run by the nominal head of the novel, and not a necessity? Just a thought. Farewell. The Nose Behind KhenumRa
Farewells Author: Satra Hatshepsut Date: 07-24-01 17:44 I just wanted to state that I, too, am resigning from Qenbet. No offense to anyone, especially the Hand behind Kaptah/Siamen-re, whose writing I have always greatly enjoyed and will miss. My main reason is that EVERYONE my character interacts with is gone. Therefore, all the foundations of relationships, situations, etc established for my character are gone. I am deeply sorry that once again, behind the scene politicking & ego trips have refused to learn from history - this is the same things that cost us first Cleopatra on AS, & then Nesnut here. I'm not going to bother with writing an exit scene for Satra. I'll save my creative energy for places it can be put to more pleasant use. Em hotep.
All Is Not Lost Author: Akhenheru Hatshepsut Date: 07-24-01 19:18 Yes, I know that many good writers have been lost over the past week. Yes, I know there has been much conflict and hostility here, even after the move to Pan. But I, being a relative newbie to Qenbet, have not given up my faith in the group, and I for one feel that all is NOT lost. We have not, after all, lost all of our talented writers. I see this as an opportunity to breathe new life into the group, and as another step in Qenbet's evolution. So, although Sekhmet, Tjeti, Mirjam, and the others will be missed in Qenbet, I think what we should do is recruit more good writers and newbies to Pan, and see what we come up with! :-)
The main element IS lost Author: KaRa Date: 07-25-01 09:03 The main element that has been lost is trust. Promises made should be kept. A few months ago when I was approached by my Jurassic playmates to be part of the Waset rebellion, I was assured that this was all in good fun and above board so, as much as my character could, being an architect and apolitical, I played with it. When everyone stopped osculating SiamunRe's royal posterior after the coronation and he himself began to go on about his bunions and taking the lands away from Imen at Ipet Isut and inventing Cleomenes, I knew that things were on track. And then when Tannis came in and the people who hadn't posted for months or years started posting I was elated. The action was fantastic. My only complaint about my Jurassic buddies was that they wouldn't tell me the ending they had planned because it would make me reach farther and improve my writing. Hmph! One of the things that I can't stand about the current Qenbet is that discussions in public forums are not encouraged. In an effort to keep peace the board members stifled conversations many times by proclaiming threads closed or telling us that we could not use bad words like dinosaurs and city people. I could live with this by just not commenting anymore and concentrating on writing but I cannot live with punitive, vengeful people who would take away a person's position for being part of a FICTIONAL MUTUALLY AGREED UPON STORY. That is nonsense. It is for this reason that I will now confine my efforts to completing the archives and maintaining the palace.
My last post Author: Ahktenar Date: 07-25-01 09:27 It seems that my post explaining the earlier one has not been read by many people, or perhaps just not believed. Either way, the damage is done. I can't undo my mistakes. The petty tyrant that wanted to kill off everyone's character is gone. I have resigned as Vizier and from the board of this novel. This is likely my last post here, so there is no reason for anyone else to stop playing here. For my mistakes, I am truly sorry.
Administrative Thoughts : Official Hat On Author: Wyatt Earp Date: 07-25-01 12:18 Howdy all, I'm wearing my marshal's badge today, even though it's a bit of an anachronism, but I reckon since I was way too involved previously (and regret anything I might have said to lead this novel to the peripice it how hovers on), this is way safer. First of all, Ahktenar, I read your last post and I think that you're too hard on yourself (and possibly too hard on the novel members). The original post of yours may have furthered misunderstandings but the responses of folks on this board to the recent events cover a far greater area then one single post and involves threats that were reputedly made in IMs - not your post and not by you. You are still held in affection and respect by everyone that I know of. In the course of this novel's history you've been glue holding things together far more than anything else. Now as an administrator and mediator (did I spell that feller right?) for the site I want to say: "Folks, you still have a novel here." You have just experienced one of those moments, like an earthquake, where things change. Nothing will be the same again. But it's really time to take stock of things and rebuild. It would be constructive at this point to decide what you want to do with this novel. Remember, your Pharaoh is away for some days, and he asked you to wait for him. Why don't you take this time to think about how you would like the NEW Qenbet to look like. It's never going to look like the old. You have a new chance. You've seen what was wrong, now find things to do to fix those things. The old system failed? Build a new system. Post positive suggestions here. People quit? Recruit new people. It seems that this novel, more than any other here at Pan (that I have observed), brought with it old issues and an old structure, one that is not suited to this new format. I don't think any one person is correctly labeled a 'dinosaur' but perhaps it's the 'group' itself. Time to become a novel I think.
Ahktenar's last post Author: KaRa Date: 07-25-01 13:43 When Wyatt said, "First of all, Ahktenar, I read your last post and I think that you're too hard on yourself (and possibly too hard on the novel members). The original post of yours may have furthered misunderstandings but the responses of folks on this board to the recent events cover a far greater area then one single post and involves threats that were reputedly made in IMs - not your post and not by you. You are still held in affection and respect by everyone that I know of. In the course of this novel's history you've been glue holding things together far more than anything else," he said it right. I completely agree. Even if some people did things wrong, that does not mean that they should shrivel upand die and be no good forever. Many times things are done from a certain viewpoint, out of haste or with missunderstanding of another's intentions. The point of all of this is to learn from it. We are in a different place here and we have to adjust. I have tried to do things out of concern for the group and had them blow up in my face a few times and I have felt wronged and very very unappreciated so I do empathize with the board members and anyone here who has tried to do anything to benefit the group. I would like to thank everyone who cared. I still hold Ahktenar in much respect, especially since he has taken the time to explain himself and apologise for any errors made. He does set a grand example.
I'm With You, KaRa! Author: Akhenheru Hatshepsut Date: 07-25-01 16:35 I haven't had any problems with Ahktenar, and I agree with the points KaRa made in her post. *henu* You will be missed, Neb Tjatey.
Around my neck Author: Mirjam Date: 07-26-01 01:21 Qenbet hangs around my neck. I find that several years' dedication, teamwork, fun, development, is just not to be shrugged off that lightly. I´m not going into any long talk about what this group needs to do or anything such, more than please think twice about what Wyatt said. I´m deeply sorry for Akhtenar, he has been a rock. Siamen/Kaptah - you´re dear to my heart. My character Mirjam is for a long, long, time to come living at Philae with her family. She holds her hemet-netjer-net Aset position and cares for the island. But she has retired from court and from storywriting. She will no longer partake in the official life, provided this novel doesn´t change its course drastically. The position as Lector Priest was an impossible one to hold for a woman. There are no records of that having happened in history. Besides, there were several male ones of these at each temple. The position should really be named something else, if it´s even needed beyond storywriting, which I doubt. My post as King´s Lector Priest and First Prophet (I never used that part of it) was given to me during the leadership of Cleopatra, by her as a reward for my work for the group. That reward is impossible to resign from, for it is Personal. The mind behind.
Imagine That....? Author: Menefertaten Hatshepsut Date: 07-26-01 03:38 What Marshal Wyatt, KaRa, and Mirjam have said is quite true, and I also hold immense respect for SiamenRe/ Kaptah. Ahktenar, ol' buddy ? You're being WAY too hard on yourself, and you're taking responsibility for a ruckus you didn't start. Like Marshal Wyatt and the person behind KhenumRa stated,a lot of Qenbet tried to keep the old system going, but it wasn't set up that way here. I was happy about that too. Then here comes trouble, because some of us didn't read the fine print. The part about, this is supposed to be a novel.Not roleplaying. Not Dungeons&Dragons. Writing. Writing a story in which people could participate without too much problem. I'm just a bit angry. Angry because some people don't know when to back down or keep their hurtful, petty grievances to themselves. Angry, because it's caused Qenbet, a place I hold dear, to be a civil war zone, with BAD casualties. I think what KhenumRa suggested might be worth looking into- that part about one person being Pharoah ( read, " Editor " here ) and the entire Royal Family being NPCs. I kinda like that idea. Anyone else? I'm sticking it out here for awhile longer, to see if this novel is salvagable. If the bad feelings and politics continue, I think me and my Shadows will just fade into the desert, leaving nothing but that special Chinese "suggestion" behind. Laters- Menefertaten
Thoughts Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 07-26-01 06:25 I would like to add that Ahktenar will be missed not only by most (if not all) of Qenbet and his fellow board members but by the hand behind Thais who will always regard him as a friend. Thanks Ahktenar for all you have achieved and all you have tried to achieve for Qenbet. Changing the subject, I've read all the posts with a mix of emotions. What they are I won't tell you, that is a personal matter but I have one question. What would happen to my character if the Royal Family became NPC's? What would happen to my role play husband, Alexandros, not to mention Basteta's character and Siamun's character? Believe it or not we enjoy role playing as a family. OK we have the odd squabble but that is to be expected but on the whole I enjoy having Siamun and Basteta role play my adoptive parents. I would not want to give up my rolepaying relationship with all these people. Please remember as you discuss this that you are talking about other people's characters. Before anyone posts saying that I and other board members should have considered other people's characters too, I agree that we should have. I'm sorry that I didn't and I apologise to anyone whose feelings I have hurt. But I hope we can all learn from this and try to work together instead of continuing to air old grievances. It is time we moved on. The hand behind Thais
Thoughts, Mine Author: KaRa Date: 07-26-01 06:39 It is entirely fine with me if the members of the royal family stay on without becoming nrc. I have no wish to extinguish them or to snuff them out. I want to see what happens. Just let us treat others as we would like to be treated.
The King is dead. Long live the King. Author: Jonamun Date: 08-03-01 13:58 Menefer isn't suggestion that the current royal family be transformed into NPCs. I think what she's offering is the idea of creating a royal family consisting of NPCs, and looking for some discussion on the pros & cons of doing so. This isn't a new idea, and other novels on this site have implemented it. We have to remember that the existing royal family was assembled after Nesnut's reign ended, an assemblage made to fill a fictional power gap. We elected Siamun-Re as a group, an overwhelming affirmation of his demonstrated ability to drive our over-arcing storyline. He has done so with gusto, but he has ended his reign, ending the Pharaoh's life and resigning from Qenbet. I did see his post, and read that Basteta & Thais are slated to fill the void. I for one would like to ask consideration on the fact that Nesnut did not name her successor, rather, we elected him. Granted, it may be a moot point, and Basteta, who placed second in the prior election, may very well win the next one. But I would like to hear why it is proceeding without discussion. If the idea of NPC[s] garners support, we could avoid having elections each time our Pharaoh resigns, and have at least a fictional stability, leaving only board positions subject to real life vagaries. For that matter, only a Pharaoh NPC may be needed, one that the existing RF can gather about. The possibilities are exciting. I happen to like the NPC option, but look forward to reasoned alternatives. There is no rush. And as others have already said, this is an opportunity worth seizing in the hopes of getting off on the right foot. Now that we've all seen the realities of Panhistoria's format, lets make the effort to craft a novel less hamstrung by the ghost of our previous home.
RE: The King is dead. Long live the King. Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 08-03-01 15:19 Let me start with why there will be no election. It was Siamun's wish that I take over as King and that there would be no election. Basteta agreed to it and so did I. Thus the board members voted for this change. We have lost one member of the Royal Family that is all, however, he will be sorely missed. Additionally we are no longer at AS, we are at Pan Historia, please read this post by Allanon which explains things from the point of view of an editor of Pan Historia. The Royal Family will not become NPC, I'm sorry but I am not killing off my character or handing it over to someone else or telling my friends to kill off or hand over their characters to become NPC's. Basteta and myself are still board members and will remain so, jointly administering the novel, just as we were jointly administering the novel with Siamun-Re. Myself and Basteta are working on new ideas for Qenbet and we will be letting you know more about this sometime next week. (Archivist's NB: The post linked to is RE: Clarification Author: Allanon Date: 07-13-01 07:24 in the General Discussion topic.)
RE: The King is dead. Long live the King. Author: Jonamun Date: 08-03-01 16:01 It's good to hear the board's reasoning, especially on the issue of elections. It is an important thing for us to be aware of. Nonetheless, I do hope to hear what others think.
RE: The King is dead. Long live the King. Author: Basteta-Tiye Date: 08-05-01 07:17 I hope you all can understand how upset and hurt we are when you suggest we make our characters into NPCs. They are living and breathing beings to Thais and I and we have made enough changes to them for the sake of Qenbet. Much of what I wanted to do with Basteta as Queen never happened since virtual life, like real life happens when you are making other plans. We are not leaving or becoming NPCs, not after all this. At the time of the elections the top three nominees got together and decided to form a Royal Family and team regardless of who won and became Per'aa. We had all talked to Nesnut at various times and felt this was essential for the Per'aa to survive and to thrive in this atmosphere. I had Nesnut's blessing to go for it and it meant a great deal to me (she also thought I was crazy for wanting the job.) We would divide the duties since Siamum wasn't crazy about the administration duties and wanted to write stories more than anything. We underestimated the toll that moving to PanHistoria would take and the RL pressures that Siamun, Ahktenar, and I would have as well. Thais and I lost almost all time to do role play and Siamun would cut reading planning posts to get his writing done. Communications broke down, people got the wrong ideas and took action and under all that pressure we had an explosion that ended up losing Qenbet a number of good people. So now, lets all take a deep breath, take a few moments and ask ourselves one question: What do you want? What stories do you want to tell? What parts of history or the life of AE do you want to explore? What are you missing most from AS or are other novels doing that you want to do here? What are you willing to do to make those things happen? Be realistic and don't suggest things you don't want to work with and be a part of building. NOTE: We need to restructure the planning and story boards so back up anything you need as we will delete them starting September 1st. Story ideas: Do we jump to Thais having been already crowned, Siamun-Re buried, and the new baby ready to arrive? Or do we just start where we are and keep going.... Well? What do you want? Please don't reply here but at this new topic. (Archivist's NB: The topic linked to is 'What do you want?')
RE: The latest happenings Author: Nefertiabet Date: 08-06-01 07:34 Well, I´m just one of the silent ones who´s comfortable sitting back and study what goes on. Sometimes I write a little and sometimes I even post it. *S* But for once I feel like saying something. It´s brought about by the current events and please excuse me being long-winded *S*. This group has lost many of its´ key writers and players. Most of those who made it interesting to read the story, found at one point that being here was so awkward that they preferred to go play elsewhere or place their characters inactive for the time being. One by one they disappeared. People who were long-term members, who had both skills in writing and great historical knowledge. And now also Siamun-Re. His is not an easy place to fill. Just as impossible as it is to fill Nesnut´s. Now - if a group suffers such a severe loss of members, then that can´t be just due to those members who left. The fault is never with one party. I just can´t help to think that there must be a quite serious reason. And that reason probably lies within the structure of this group. This machine does not function properly. People don´t leave groups just like that. It seems that there should be no effort spared in trying to find out how matters could be put right again. Work it out - as a team! Each and everyone whether on the board or not - take responsibility for one´s own part in what happened. Then there is this mentioning of NPC. Actually that is a very good idea which would open up interesting possibilities, as someone said. I don´t think anyone has asked or demanded that the so called 'royal family' kill off their characters! I think that´s a mistake in interpretation. But there seems to be some confusion or mix-up right there: Does the position in the storyline have to be matched with the position on the board? That is - do board members have to be 'royals'? And vice versa - do people have to be 'royals' to be on the board? As we all know, it´s not the character himself or herself who has any power, it´s the hands behind. The way we act in our postings, the way we approach each other in IM´s, and the way we grant each other freedom of movement and creativity. So someone playing a weaver or stone cutter in the storyline can just as well be on the board and help the novel move along as anyone who is playing a member of high society, as there´s just no real power behind those titles. Then there are those who say that this group isn´t fun any more. Finally I have to agree. It seems that something´s going on behind the scenes which leaks out in the form of people leaving, not many new suggestions for activities, discussion posts come in spurts and are mostly about dissention, a rather dull novelboard and you have to 'obtain permission' to play a historical character. (dust jacket) I hope that´s just an unlucky choice of phrasing. If freedom of creation is violated and restrictions and rules about what to do and how to play are enforced - I´m sorry but that´s just not going to work. You can see that everywhere in rl society. You join somewhere for fun and creation - if you get a lot of pointers on exactly how to have fun - now where did the fun go? And especially in a place like this - which is meant for having fun and for writing, alone or together, whichever. It seems that this group is still organized the way it was at AS. Obviously this doesn´t work so well here at pan. Some sort of restructuring and simplifying would be needed, even though it will probably not bring back those who left. All it takes would be someone who can initiate and weave a really interesting plot where there´s space for everyone. I´m talking about a plot which lifts above the individual level and takes in the scope of ancient Egypt - all of it. Not especially one single city or just a small group of characters. There are no less than ten (10) ! 'Egyptian' novels or group boards here at pan, where people roleplay in some time period or another and when you look at them, you can hardly differ one from the other. Is Qenbet really going to go the same way? And why is there so little discussion on how the group should be run now and in the future? Is it because there are so few active members left? Do people just not care? Is everyone in agreement with how the group´s being run now? It would be interesting to see some responses on this discussion topic. Thank you for listening.
Well, heck... Author: Lotus Date: 08-08-01 15:50 I go away for a little while.....and boom. For a long time now, I've found Qenbet less than enjoyable. The reason is because the politics far outweighed the sense of fun and writing in a group setting. I've stuck with it because I genuinely like the majority of the people I work with here. Since studying group culture is what I do (literally, folks), I can tell you one thing. The quest for personal power (real or perceived) has overshadowed the goal of the group. Either the group has perceived someone (or many) being power grab hungry or they truly were, makes not difference. "The mere appearance of impropriety..." So, with that in mind, there is something we need to decide. What is our goal for this group??? Are we here to write some really good fictional stories set in a historical time period? Are we here to create a virtual world? Are we here to fight with each other in order to bolster or own quest for personal power? IF we are here to create fiction, then the need for an overarcing administrative power is not necessary. A good ephemism is we have administrated Qenbet nearly to death. (I can hear the life support machines beeping in the background). But it need not be so. There is a way to resurrect us, and I have a few ideas, if anyone is willing to listen, but it must be a cooperative effort. Not a "Because I said so". (My apologies Thais, I'm not accusing you or anyone else. Just generalizing about noone in particular.) First of all, the mob mentality has set in. With every perceived "bad act", many are quick to jump on the band wagon for a little action. That didn't fly in the LA riots as a defense, so it's equally ineffective here. That must stop effective immediately. We must begin to respect each other individually and assume that no offense was meant, because in 99.9% of past hurts, no offense was meant. In this virtual land, we do not have the benefit of body language or any other outward charactistics to clue us in on hidden subtext. Always assume the best in your fellow members, it does wonders. This is always a good start, there are other things we can work on to improve the quality of our group, but it will take collective effort. Anyone else have ideas???
RE: Well, heck... Author: Thais Sobkneferu Date: 08-08-01 17:15 Can I just point out that the board has already set up a new topic called "What do you want?" to provide a place where you can tell us (quoting from Basteta-Tiye's last post in this topic, dated 08/05/01): "What do you want? What stories do you want to tell? What parts of history or the life of AE do you want to explore? What are you missing most from AS or are other novels doing that you want to do here? What are you willing to do to make those things happen? Be realistic and don't suggest things you don't want to work with and be a part of building. NOTE: We need to restructure the planning and story boards so back up anything you need as we will delete them starting September 1st. Story ideas: Do we jump to Thais having been already crowned, Siamun-Re buried, and the new baby ready to arrive? Or do we just start where we are and keep going.... Well? What do you want? Please don't reply here but at this new topic." I'm pointing this out because it will be easier for everyone to follow whats going on if we just use one topic.
RE: The latest happenings Author: Basteta-Tiye Date: 08-09-01 16:52 Discussion of the future of Qenbet is in the topic called "What do you want?" on the planning board, please post there. We are asking for concrete ideas, solutions and volunteers to do the work. There has to be some structure for a novel to work and Qenbet's is in line with most of the other Egyptian novels. A good chunk of what is there is not to limit you but to protect you as an author and a person. For example the historical character clause that Nefertiabet mentioned. Qenbet has an established history and certain historical figures have had their time here and gone West. When Qenbet was originally created by Cleopatra at AS the historical requirements were set and it has been followed here at PanHistoria. We had a rash of people there who joined as Caesar, Caesarion, etc, without reading the archives and who just wanted to jump in regardless of what they did to established storylines. The clause is there so that authors must ask permission and present a potential storyline to the board for approval before posting. If you happen to have a great idea for a storyline with a historical person Nefertiabet, then please send it to Thais and I. Cleopatra also established the precedence that the Pera'a be in charge of leading Qenbet and each has enlisted members to help them with that task. PanHistoria requires that each novel have a board of at least two members and that they are responsible for governing the novel. We merely combined the two. One more time: We are NOT making our characters NPCs. The reasons why have been stated in previous posts so let's not bring this up again. Focus on the future and tell us what you want in concrete terms and please reply in the topic called "What do you want?" on the planning board. Cross posted in that topic
The American Tragedies Author: Khenuneferais Date: 09-11-01 16:19 I'd just like to say to the Qenbet family, I hope all your family and friends are well in this time of such horrid events and tragedies. To the families of the World Trade Center attack and collapse victims my prays go out, to those in the Pentagon attack and collapse, my prays, and to those of the Pennsylvania plane crash, my prays go out. The events of this so innocent day will never be forgotten. Terror will not stand in this world and age. Love to you all. I am an American and I do live in NY, shock and prayers have filled the state. This was not just an attack on America, this is an attack on the world. It is a rape of personal safety, of humanity. To everyone, American and all, my prays in this time of threat.
OOC. Thoughts from the UK.... Author: Akhet Ramesses Date: 09-11-01 16:54 With great sorrow I'd like to express my horror and disbelief at what I'm watching on TV....... I know I speak for everyone in the UK, when I say that our thoughts, prayers and condolences are with you all at this sad time. To all my American friends both here on PH and elsewhere, I send you my heartfelt love and best wishes. Stay strong my friends! Akhet/John
Sad stories Author: Iufenamun Amenhotep Date: 09-12-01 21:55 Hello everyone. Wow. Trying to comment upon all that has happened recently here in the United States is truly overwhelming. Or at least, it is overwhelming trying to write something knowing so many strangers (and of course friends) will read it. A certain feeling of inadequacy, along with a dash of blasphemy, is running through my mind right now. I suppose blasphemy isn't the right word for me, since I'm not a religious person (at least not in a organized-religion way). Nonetheless, when confronted with the enormity of death and suffering as we have all been, that's the word that comes to mind when thinking of saying anything public about it. But my good friend User has asked me to do so, and I'll give it my best shot. Don't be surprised when I get wordy, that's just me. How then to start? Let me think of the first words that come to me now - caution, restraint, tolerance. All opposite sentiments from those felt by those who so viciously attacked us. I spent most of yesterday worried sick about a friend from Boston, who was (and thankfully still is), in Boston. He was supposed to fly into LA yesterday, but it turns out that his flight was a few hours later. I almost felt bad about how relieved I was, knowing how much others continue to suffer. Well, there is one thing that I am somewhat good at, and it's telling stories. So let me tell you a short story. It's a true story, and I know it far too well. Please bear with me. The time was the very beginning of the 1990's. The young man, or really more the boy, who I will tell you about, lived in the soon to be torn apart country of Yugoslavia. As others did, he watched the collapse of communism in many European countries with a mixture of unreality and anticipation. The collapse of the system that had so long been part of everyone's life, including his, came as something very unnerving at first. But in time, as he was swept along with others, he started feeling a nervous excitement. He lived in the then Republic of Croatia. Well, I'll skip the interlude here. Soon after these events, Serbian rebels started their insurrection against the lawfully elected government of Croatia. I won't spout ideology at you - this is neither the time or place. The point was, very soon after this, the rebel terrorists ambushed and killed a group of policemen. Inhumanly butchered is the more correct description. I won't describe the images everyone viewed on their television sets. Suffice it was barely imaginable seeing them since WW2. Well, the kid I was telling you about was a very impressionable 15 at the time. The images were in no way censored - he felt the full impact. I cannot describe the feeling he felt as anger. The words that better apply are helpless, visceral rage. Rage, unimaginable to him before. The kind that makes one's blood boil, a thumping felt in one's temples as blood flows into one's brain and adrenaline floods the system. This had been an attack on every Croat and everything the new order stood for. There would be far worse later of course. Well, watching all this, the kid felt both very afraid, and very, very angry that he was only 15, and therefore wasn't old enough to volunteer for the fighting which was to follow. A very small part of him died then. The naive part, I suppose. Soon, the Yugoslavian People's Army got involved. As naive as it seems now, most believed that the army meant what they said when they said they wanted to stop the fighting between the rebel Serbs and the Croatian police. Our protagonist was one of those that clung to this hope. After all, if nothing else, this federal army was largely financed by Croatian money, as well as having many Croatian members. Well, everyone found out the bitter truth as the army tanks turned their cannon towards the Croats. The army generals weren't yet saying as much, but they had right then sided with the Serbs. I won't go into the details of what happened next. It's a long story. The sense of betrayal and anger was overwhelming for everyone, including our protagonist. In a small way, the Croats (and others after them) were fortunate that the vast majority of the federal air force pilots were Croats or Slovenes. Naturally, they promptly deserted rather than kill their countrymen. Anyhow, as I said. I won't get into details. The war dragged on for years, the international response worse than pitiful. It would have brought tears of frustration to our protagonist, if he had been capable of crying by then. Slowly over the years, his heart hardened. He was no longer truly capable of feeling real human sorrow - he had run out of it long ago. He was slowly getting older and smarter - he saw the pointlesness of the slaughter, and no longer felt an urge to participate. If anything, he felt more and more revulsion as he watched his countrymen, former friends, neighbours, and coworkers, slaughter each other brutally. He knew better than to believe the excuses by now - his tolerance for propaganda had also lowered substantially. As time passed, his heart hardened to the suffering of his fellows. Oh, he still felt it, but it was a different feeling. I suppose the words nihilism, and inevitability of doom, would describe his thoughts well. Let us skip some time forward. The year was 1995 - the Serbs were defeated in Croatia in August that year. A month later, our protagonist left the country, determined not to return to live there. Ever. As you have probably guessed by now, the kid in our story was me. I aged very much in some ways in those years. I was very fortunate that the fighting never reached my home island, and that I didn't participate in the fighting myself. I can't complain about the small details - the fear that the air raid alarms might be real, the electricity rationing, speaking to refugees from the front lines who were like living corpses, dead inside, barely comprehensible even to us. Spending most evenings trying to predict my response if I was forced to take a weapon and kill another man. The probability was high I might have to do this - it was not a idle exercise. Most days, I came out of my thoughts sure I would be capable of it, but as time passed, and my revulsion with it all rose, I became a bit less sure. Well, I left the country and tried very hard to do my best to put all this behind me, as you can imagine. I was sure I did a good job, until I ran into the first Serb here. To my credit (and some surprise), I felt great embarrasment at the hate I instantly felt. This person had in no way participated in the slaughter of my countrymen. In all likelyhood, was revulsed with it. But I had pronounced instant judgement, thinking only of the nationality, and not the individual. Needless to say, whenever one judges the group, and not the individual, the judgement is not fair to the individuals that are part of that group, painted as they are with the sins of their misguided brethren. I struggled with my feelings. For months, I was simply unable to control myself and be capable of anything more than barely controlled polite manner, followed by as much silence as I could get away with, whenever I ran into a Serb. This troubled me, at first on a abstract level, but then more and more, knowing I was wrong. The local plague of racism revulsed me, even as I understood my own equivalent. Well, one day I ran into a Serbian girl. She was a member of the same martial arts school I had just joined at the time (this was back during 1996). I was unsure what to do - war-induced hatred is usually directed at men, and I was not in any way angry at her. I was more nervous about her reaction to me. Well, she found out where I was from. She asked me why I hadn't told her about where I was from, and I explained. After a moment, she had the exact right response. She said something along the lines of "I don't care about any of that political crap." and gave me a good punch in the shoulder. Well, I was very embarrased about my stupidity, and was also instantly cured. The universal hate was gone. I was back to judging individuals. I spent some time with her - we had some good times. She eventually left to return to Serbia. I never heard from her since. I hope she's ok. Well, I had learned a great many harsh lessons. While being amused at the whimsy of my new countrymen here in the United States, who mostly had no understanding of war, or mortality, I very much hoped none of them would have to ever learn those lessons, except perhaps thrugh books. I was wrong. I wish I hadn't been. The enormity of what happened yesterday took a long time to sink in, even for someone "prepared" in a morbid way, as I thought I was. Of course, I was not. I spent the day in a daze, staring unbelievengly at the television. Apparently, I'm still almost incapable of crying, but I was shocked and saddened. I showed up for work, and I guess I was somewhat incoherent and pale, because first person I ran into there felt the urge to hug and console me. Amusing in retrospect - a young fragile-looking woman consoling me, large man. I thanked her properly today. I really needed it, and it reminded me what it was the we were willing to protect our way of life for. I wished there are many more like her around. That's my story. I hope you got someting out of my ramblings. I feel better. All I can say is, don't succumb to anger. Don't let hate and death, my old friends, walk with you as they have with me and slowly eat you from the inside. I had to re-learn to be a normal human being. I think I succeeded. Please don't let yourself have to do that. Finally, don't turn on your countrymen because of their country of origin or religion. The pitiable vermin that did this would delight in that to no end. So much from me. Feel free to leave me messages and comments at my home page here. I hope you all find relief from all this in your own way, and my heart goes out to all of you who have lost someone in these tragedies.
RE: Sad stories Author: Nebmaatre Date: 09-13-01 20:13 I am glad you were willing to share your story with us. It is very noble of you to share such a personal tale and quite appropriate at this time. I am sure it has touched many of Qenbet's readers as it has touched me. Thank you. Neb